Muster weed control in Canola

[Jagfarms]

Hello FreeWheat

I am looking at early one or Synergy for the field
i am trying. I have the same thoughts as you. I
am going to put everything to it and see the
difference. I am seeding it on a very clean field
that never had canola before and it was
chemfollow last year and Durum 2 years ago.

[freewheat]

Has to be fairly clean land is part of
the problem. I have a lot of cleavers up
here, and it is tough in conventional
canola to control... Edge has some
supression, but edge calls for
incorporation which is against my
religion.

The other thing is a guy could keep his
own seed, and save a pile of cost in the
future years. IF it works.

So tell me, will 50 year old thatcher
wheat grow? And if my pappy got 50
bushels of thatcher wheat in the late
50's, using dubious agronomy, how come
the latest greatest wheats are still a
50 bushel wheat generally?

Will my lil jar of old wheat sprout? lol

[freewheat]

A couple of things to think about that I
recalled since the last post.

When I was a wee child, my dad grew a
quarter of a new fandangled variety of
barley called "Harrington". With 40 lbs
of n he got 85 bushels an acre on
stubble. The new Katepwa wheat delivered
50. The brand new Westar canola gave him
45. Since the 1930's, oats has yielded
100 or more.

I just do not see the yield increases
(if there is much at all in the first
place), as coming soley from variety
improvement. I see it coming from 120
lbs of n, 40 of p, 30 k, and 10 of s,
along with fungicides, ( who used tilt
in 1982?), copper, no tillage, and on
and on.

Imagine the uproar if we all went back
to 1970's or 1980's varieties? Seed
growers would go broke. lol

[bucket]

where are you guys finding these conventional canolas?

[hobbyfrmr]

Global canola was a tall kick ass variety late
season though.
AC Excel (?)
Crusher(?)
There was a conventional hybrid called hyola401,
I think it had a polish counterpart.

It is a good idea to multiply some old conventional
varieties and keep seed kicking around.
10 years ago you would have been the seed
keeping doomsday conspiracy kook neighbour on
the farm
Fast forward to today and the seed companies
have every canola grower kneeling for them with
chequebooks open.
Keep in mind, cross pollination. I don't exactly
know how to isolate, maybe just sell your
headlands to elevator.

[Jagfarms]

Bucket Mastin seeds from Sundre Ab has the
plant breeders rights to early one Canola and
Secan to Synergy.

I hope to have some Synergy seed for sale in
2014 if it works out ok for us in 2013.

Freewheat you could mulitiply the Thatcher
seed. It is amazing how seed can multiply.

We started out with 50 pounds of Dazil lentil
seed in 2009 and harvested over 20,000 bu in
2012.

It would be tough to harvest such a small
amount the first few years.

[freewheat]

Jag, when I was a kid, I use to seed
small areas to various grains by hand
and stuff. I now have an 8 year old son
and a 4 year old son, who do the same. A
ten by ten plot could get me off to a
good start... I just have sentimental
value attached to that 50 year old seed,
and do not want to seed it all, and have
it not germ, and then have no thatcher
left to show for it... Sounds dumb, but
that little jar of seed is a piece of my
dad to me. I am going to seed a hundred
or so seeds though this spring. See what
happens...
LOL!

This is a great conversation. It is not
political trash talk, it is not over my
head market talk, it is not chinese
buying up our land. It is down home
farmer talk, and I am enjoying this
thread right here...

So I figure with canola at 14 bucks,
saving a bushel of seed for every twelve
acres is fairly cost effective, if a guy
can have some level of success with a
conventional canola.

I just read an article about using edge
in no til situations. If it is applied
in the fall, no incorporation is
required apparently. They just do not
stand by it. so throw in the benefit of
a group three herbicide in the rotation
as well...

[Potashprincess]

Interesting conversation on this thread. My thoughts are good luck with the muster gold, Read the label, the window to control weeds is fairly narrow and that is they are not group 2 resistant. A preseed burnoff is a must.

Freewheat..I think you are missing out of the biggest factors when comparing seed varieties and yields of the 50s 60s to today...nutrient supplying power of the soil. They got good yields from 50lbs of N because there soils provided more nutrients then ours do today. No offense but your dad probably used that "bank" up summerfallowing ever second year.

It is frustrating when we do spend big money on new seed genetics and we get average or below average yields but that is not always the fault of the variety. The older varieties will be at a huge risk to leaf diseases and lodging.The disease pressure today is nothing like it was 40-50 years ago.

Seeding the conventional canola on breaking is just gonna show you how great virgin soil will produce. You need toseed another variety in the same field if you want to compare. If you dont its coffee shop talk

[hobbyfrmr]

freewheat, it is not just the economics of the project.
Consider the fact that every big seed company has their canola seed and herbicide technology licensed and patented. Farmers have not choice to pay what the market bears.
These companies have done a brilliant job in marketing, so much that even if a farmer exercised a little independant thinking and chose to grow conventional canola, there is very little seed to be found. You may find a niche business in your efforts.

[freewheat]

I dunno, potash princess. By the time my
dad started growing canola in the 70's,
our soils were quite a bit worse than
what I believe them to be now after 20
years of no til/higher input farming
practices. Organic matter and soil
structure is so much better than the
powder we used to have.
IMO.

I know what you are saying, but I do not
think it is a very large factor for my
specific soil conditions at least..
putting my canola on relatively new
breaking, yes I will have some invigour
out there to compare more directly.

All I know, is that crop yields have
been fairly stagnant on this farm, and
it has more to do with hyped up seed
"improvements" IMO, than weather, soil,
or fertility factors.

I will know by fall...

[hobbyfrmr]

Potash I agree with the window of timing for the Muster.
I agree with the preseed burnoff and a clean start. That is the same for any crop, and canola.
I agree a person has to make as accurate a comparison as possible.
I do not agree with the disease pressure. In my area the biggest reason for disease is poor choice of rotation. LWeber had a canola buddy reflecting statistics that many, many producers are planting over 40% of their farm's acres into canola. It is only logical that there will be disease pressure when farmers cheat rotations.

[freewheat]

Re: the timing of muster application, it
can be applied from the two leaf stage to
early bolting, and it seems weed control
is best at the 1-4 leaf stage of the
weeds, which IMO, is not too bad really.