What happens if the rest of the world wont buy our crops

[ado089]

Kaiser, a funny thing happens when
people get enough nutrition. They live
long enough to die of things like cancer
and degenerative diseases.

[oneoff]

Poor kaiser's tit sure is in a knot. Even when a person hasn't contributed to a thread, there are attacked.

So here are a couple comments .
Anyone who wants the advantages of our present day life had better own up to their share of the waste that comes with it. But first you must admit the benefits you enjoy. And real organic farming for the masses comes from the energy of ethanol mandated to be blended into gasoline, exotic chemicals injected into oilfield formations and pipelines to produce fuel for organic farm machines. And when those hydrocarbons are produced, they become the building blocks of the plastics and fabrics and steels and alloys that produce fumes and pollutants... and even the useful products that even organic enthusiasts embrace..... if they want natural gas heat, and up to date machinery and life in the 21st century and 9 billion souls as their companions.

And when everyone gets sick; do they sensibly wish to have the option to be treated with chemotherapy, radiation, treatments, a host of at least somehat proven pills, antibiotics, stem cells and potions....or do they reject those treatments out of hand and rely solely on "natural herbs and natural treatments".

You know, kaiser, there are actually some pretty remarkable modern treatments that have quite amazing results. I wouldn't care to reject them all out of hand. Its just possible you will seem quite the hypocrit (if you already aren't one), when you stoop to attempting to prolong life using that same chemistry field that you universally denounce.

And no, no and no that does not mean allowing and condoning shortcuts, and hastiness and carelessness in the development of commercialized introduction of new technology. But it is naive, and out of touch with reality to insist in living as those long gone from previous centuries.

You were born in the wrong generations.

[rkaiser]

Tit ain't long enough to get in a knot Jack and the last thing I am is poor.

That is, I likely don't have the money or land assets that most of the posters on this site have, but I am certainly en joy in my life. What fun would this site, or the world for that matter be if we all sucked the knotted or frankenstieny third tit of Cargil and Monsanto

I kind thought you might read my post buddy, and write a bit of a diatribe of yer own.

As for the fuel consumption of tractors farming land without chemicals and growing real food. I am all for biofuel to use for these tractors. I have said it before and will again, use that damn GMO corn to make fuel for farm tractors that are out their tilling and seeding real food. Now that we have cleared and cultivated more than enough land to feed the people of the earth, we might as well cover that ground with corn for fuel.

Times will change and there will be other energy sources for farming reak food down the road, and hey, changing the world to "my" world LMAO will not happen over night.

You sure do like to take things to the extreme Jack. Even though I have said a number of times that I am not really in favor of organic agriculture, you love to use the term. And then go on with your garble about technology and medicine....blah blah blah.

Shit ya Jack, I have used medicine. Used enough the it damn near kilt me once. And like I said to Cor once when he asked me if I let my animals die when they get sick. Hell no Cor, I treat them and send them to the same place you send all of your immune reduced chem cattle. The auction market. We have actually been friends ever since.

I will never change the world Jack, but plan on making a fair bit more noise than I have so far before I am done. You want to play the poor farmer who can't make enough money farming with consciousness for man kind. Go ahead. Not my choice.

Not sure why you say that I universally denounce chemistry. Other than to try to win some sort of fight over beliefs. LOL

Chemistry is a wonderful thing and in fact, balancing diet is all about that stuff called chemistry.

Playing with it like Monsanto does to simply profit monetarily and suck farmers into using it for the same profit game, and then experimenting on humans is what I don't see as necessary.

As for technology. If you like, I will send you DNA and ultrasound work that I have been doing on my naturally raised bulls for the last 20 plus years. Or a gaggle of data from the Lacombe research center on the natural chemical make up of the beef I have been producing from them thar bulls for about the last ten.

Doubt if they did much of that stuff in the era you think I should have been born in.

Better get off this computer before the lithium batteries affect my brain like they have yours Jack... LOL

[oneoff]

What most people can't understand, OR WON"T UNDERSTAND, is such concepts as biochemical pathways. These reactions are not governed by "beliefs " or "faith" in any way.

It like a water softener. You don't get harder water out than the raw water input; if NaCl in the softener isn't all used up; and the media bed isn't fouled; and the raw water isn't frozen solid and the iron is not interfering and the water contains the common hardness creating calcium and Magnnesium ions etc., etc. And so the more reactive NA ions from the "salt" replace the Ca and Mg ions in a predictable manner... and the water produced has different properties and a more pleasing interaction with soap.

Well a couple of biochemistry and chemistry courses will give you an introduction to how you might even make RoundUp; or the basics of how the pathways of "metabolism" might create every compund and complex chemical in an animal body or in a lab test tube.

Until you are exposed to that side of science , you remain but a person blurting out statements using terms that you have picked up with no underlying understanding.

And you might well miss the real hazards by stating "I've always said use that GMO corn for ethanol production"

Talk about missing the points. Your point should be that the corn grown for ethanol production is even more dangerous. You would be giving support to such GMO varieties as Bt corn which is loaded with its own insecticide such that current borer insects simply die from feeding on this variety. And you still would claim this poses no danger to food consumption?? I do see the public value in your opinions; not trust such ill informed spokespersons.

What I'm trying to say is that this subject doesn't have but one angle; and that while you may be content with your full understanding of science; I would say you are missing a heck of a lot more than what I have forgotten from 30 plus years ago.

[rkaiser]

That's why I like you Jack. You have a few facts to back up your facts.

The only reason that I support using GMO corn for biofuel is that I know for a fact, that I can not convince the world to stop.

And yes the BT thing is one more reason that we need to stop.

The thing I like about science is those bell curve thingamajigies. Saw a couple of them lately that are no where near the top when it comes to inflammatory disease in humans. Run these graphs alongside graphs showing the increase in the use of BT GMO crops and whala.

Is that a belief Jack; or is it science?

Biochemical pathways are another interesting concept. The idea that science came up with a few years back to find chemicals that are similar or man made to insert into food. These compounds are inserted into our bodies and the bodies of the plants and animals that we eat and the label on the product says that we are receiving 20% or 50% or 100% of that chemical per serving. Not only does that label not say that certain chemicals are not absorbed in these altered states, it will never suggest that balance is the key to any absorption.

Is that my belief too Dr. Jack. You do have a degree don't you?

Have a wonderful day and go out and absorb some sun today.

[oneoff]

You are only looking to confirm what you already believe is true. And anything along that line that remotely be associated; gets drawn in as a further confirmation of those personal beliefs.

Since you will not support the same concerns with GMO varieties used as energy or non-food uses; in the same way as those concerns apply to food directly consumed; I find your arguments to not even be consistent.

Come up with some specific claims that can be backed up with some reproducable reliable data behind them.

[wd9]

Kaiser, what level of testing and steps should be
required before a food to be introduced would be
considered safe?

[oneoff]

The better question might be
"exactly which test procedure results would a person such as "kaiser" even agree to accept".

[ado089]

The test is if a big company developed
it or not, double bad if it was
Monsanto. No one can profit you know.

[oneoff]

I doubt if it is a trivial matter for a specific test to be developed.

I know darn well that neither myself, nor you nor Kaiser would have the first clue where to start.

Further; any lab would need to know exactly where to start; and I dare say that just might not be an "off the shelf" matter.

Thus it wouldn't suprise me if only "Monsanto" had the capability to design such a test for the specific gene sequence and the markers within the genome of the species into which the genetic material was inserted.

Anyone wish to refute; that there just isn't anyone except the originating GMO lab that would have the capability to design the test in the first place.

If so; we're back to a whole bunch of people (including myself) not fully trusting the fox in charge of the chicken coop.

At least I'm not the one calling for more and more tests;and then saying that tests can't be trusted because of the manufacturer who designed them.

A little bit of knowledge is just dangerous; and not necessarily helpful in many ways.

[rkaiser]

Nothing wrong with profit ado, its the collateral damage that bothers me. Obviously doesn't bother you.

I have a asked other in the past and I will ask you three stooges if you would go into Safeway, or any other food retailer for that matter and stand in front of mom consumer and brag about the fact that you use GMO crops and spray the shit out of them with glyphosate. Explain to them just what glyphosate is and, tell them that you actually use it a number of times on your crop each year and once more to kill non GMO crops so that you can harvest your crop easier and quicker. All this so that you can keep their food cheap and make money on your farm.

Not sure what test it would take to make this delusional mind of mine comfortable. Probably a test that shows that man has not pissed with the process period. Unrealistic? Sure, not going to say it will ever happen. Too many of you happy farmers out their making money and not really giving a shit about the end use of your product.

So my views on GMO crops for fuel are inconsistent are they Jack? And that means that nothing I say is relevant.
Even when I say that we could work with what we have right NOW. I actually feel that when the world wakes up to dumping GMO production, even the GMO fuel production aspect will disappear. And that day will come boys and girls. Maybe quicker than you think. And there will be other ways for you to make money off your farms. May take a little more work and more than one pass with you air seeders and a few more by the hired spray coupe boys though.

Might actually have to participate in some value chain and look the consumer in the eye.

Oh yes --- more beliefs... I can hear it coming from Jack already...LOL

What are beliefs Jack? Seems to me that even the Monsanto scientists believe in something before they create it. Am I wrong? And then you and the rest of the farmers who buy their products have to believe in what they say. Experiments and all.

Have fun boys and girls.

[oneoff]

charlie bowed ot a long time ago.

He made the right move. Thats what I believe.

[checking]

What happens if the rest of the world wont buy our crops?

They do without, or they look for sources that they believe don't contain what they are trying to avoid. Good luck with that since the substitute could be worse than the original complaint.

But, if you want to be the Safeway mom who has to apply her cosmetics directly to the parts that appeal to the "pith helmets" of the world, then for sure you should convince her that glyphosate is what will kill her.

[charliep]

Oneoff

Perhaps neither of us will have the
final say.

USDA will continue its review and find
out how wide spread the RR gene is in US
wheat.

Customers will make decisions based on
their policy towards low level presence
of an unregistered genetically
engineered gene.

The process of litigation has begun in
the US and will expand if the the
incidence proves bigger.

What ore is to be said on the issue.

If you want a challenge, have the back
bone to answer wd9. You won't because
you like to stay on message.

[rkaiser]

I think that "checking" said it all.

The test will come at the consumer level.

What we "believe" will seal our fate.---- along side the choice of the consumer in this case.

I would rather take a position of flexibility than Monchoice.