Premium Markets

[pourfarmer]

Charlie, apologies.. jumped in a bit soon there and didnt
look at the references cited on the paper I posted (there is
another pdf that has the references). I was 'assuming' the
canola data used was based on GM varieties, however when
reviewing the information cited I see most of it comes from
data collected prior to GM of canola. Assumptions are never a
good thing.

[charliep]

On the organic canola oil, had some and interesting tasted rancid mostly because the oil hadn't be hydrogenated. People liked the oil because it had flavor.

On the other front, I am sometimes amazed how the organic industry makes their own decisions to shut opportunities because of zero detectable presence of GE policy. The presencse of GE material in a organic polish variety and then from there is vegetable is about as close to zero as you can get. The risk to consumer health is zero. But this is a hill to stand on so you can claim to be looking after the public good and not a reality based on fact. It is you who communicate with your customer and create expectations.

[ado089]

Pourfarmer, I'm sorry you took specific offense to what I said but I tend to take offense when people essentially accuse me and other producers of poisoning the food we work so hard to grow. I have no problem with people producing or consuming organic food. My problem lies with the organic lobby using faux science and fear mongering to market their product. I'm sure there are some great ways to market your product on its own terms, infact it sounds like Parsely built a strong business by growing the produce people could not otherwise source, providing local food (better taste because of vine ripening and richer soil than most veg producing regions), and by building a relationship directly with the end user. But using self anointed moral superiority and pseudo intellectual talking points is not genuine.

AS far as the CSCO canola. It is specifically bred to have high oleic acid (omega-3) and be transfat free, something most other cooking oils can't claim. It's also lower in sulfur making it more stable in the fryer while having a higher smoke point and lower odour. Now I do believe many if not all of those traits were isolated using conventional breeding, I do know that all varieties currently on the market of gluphosinate or glyphosate tolerant which are GE traits.

On to the "organic" pesticides...pyrethrum jumps to mind, just because it's plant derived doesn't make it any less dangerous than its synthetic cousins such as Matador. Roetenone derived from beans is linked to neuro degeneration similar to Parkinson disease. How can we forget Bacillus thuringiensis (bt), infamous for being used in GE corn. The interesting thing with this beast is that is used so frequently in organic production that many pests such as diamond back moths are developing resistance. At least we conventional farmers have the sense to put a non-bt refuge in with the bt varieties in order to maintain genetic diversity in the pests. Other products commonly used in organic production include nicotine, copper hydroxide and whole list of "elemental" products.

Parsley, I understand that organic imports follow Canadian standards for certification but those audits are conducted locally where corruption can occur. Additionally Canada does ZERO additional testing on organic imports.

I really wish as an industry you organic folks would practice what your preach. Develop markets based on trust instead of praying on the fear and ignorance of people who contrary to Parsley's insistence are not sophisticated enough in molecular biology, bio chemistry, organic chemistry, nutrition, grain chemistry, agronomy, ect to sort through the bullshit that is big organics marketing campaign.

And by the way Pourfarmer, if you show me true evidence that food grown using GE seed, fertilizer, or label use of pesticide is any better for me I will take that into consideration when producing and purchasing food. Until then, the amount and ratios of food that people eat will continue to have infinitely more impact on their health than how it was produced.

[parsley]

No, Charliep, you have that backwards. Organic
buyers tell organic farmers what they want and
we try to supply them.

If one parallels incremental
'presence-creep with the following , we can
better understand the perspective of premium
market buyers who specify they dont want
substitution.

For Sale: 2 carat diamond ring encircled by six
diamonds, set in 18K gold. $180,000.00
vs
For Sale: 2 carat diamond ring encircled by four
diamonds and two zirconia. Gold-filled. $180,000.00

The buyer puts his money on the table or he
doesn't. Pars

[charliep]

I will note the general tone of your conversations in these threads, your likely conversations with customers and the reality of living in a world of neighbors who grow grow their crops conventionally. You also highlight the elite you can grow to organic specifications/requirements and the elite who can afford (which is weird give much of the world grows organically/feeds the masses) to buy your product. Perhaps your biggest fear should be competitors who start using the term natural. Another conversation.

Interesting conversations. The dog wags the tail. The tail doesn't wag the dog.

[pourfarmer]

One more comment then im done here, i feel like we are running around in circles at this
point... you wont change, i wont change, i believe studies, you dont believe studies,
you reference material by bio tech, i cite material from organic ag... we could likely
go for days. One thing I think we can agree upon is the fact that consumers know nothing
about their food, and that is a bad a thing.

Sometime I really wish i could turn a blind eye, ignore the simple facts in front of my
face, just shrug it off, but then i look at my daughter, nieces and nephews

[parsley]

The tone, charliep, of Tucker and checking, well,
is what it is. And I can only say to Ado that I am
only as smart or as dense about Cargill's business
accumen as the research I am prepared to do
regarding what THEY say they envisage, plus
what they are actually doing. Read Cargill's
webpage. Cargill understands what consumer
concerns are.

1. Meat, 2010 :

"WICHITA, Kan. and LOVELAND, Colo., June 14
/PRNewswire/ -- Cargill's U.S. beef business and
Meyer Natural Foods have entered into a multi-
year agreement which creates a joint "go-to-
market" approach. This collaborative effort will
focus on expanding sales of Meyer Natural Angus
and Laura's Lean Beef to Cargill's retail and
foodservice customers that wish to offer
consumers natural and organic beef products.
Products sold under the joint marketing
arrangement will be produced for Meyer by Cargill
at its Fort Morgan, Colo., processing facility.
"This arrangement will result in our customers
having an expanded selection of high quality beef
products which they can offer consumers," said
John Keating, president of Cargill's U.S. beef
business based in Wichita. "Consumers
increasingly seek variety, quality and value in the
beef they consume, and our collaboration with
Meyer is a win-win for everyone. Meyer Natural
Foods product will be more readily available to
retailers, foodservice customers and consumers.
Cargill will be able to help customers better meet
the desire for prime and choice Angus beef from
verified origins, raised in certified humane
conditions using no antibiotics or hormones under
the Meyer Natural Angus brand or lean, heart-
healthy beef under the Laura's Lean Beef brand."
"We are delighted to partner with Cargill for this
exciting new alliance because they have a long-
standing, stellar reputation for producing the
optimal product solutions for their many
customers throughout the U.S. and around the
world," stated Bill Rupp, president of Meyer
Natural Foods. "Meyer's natural and organic beef
offerings complement Cargill's expansive beef
offerings, and we look forward to working closely
with them to grow this business."
Terms of the agreement, which became effective
in late May, were not disclosed. Cargill's U.S.
meat business is headquartered in Wichita, Kan.,
and Meyer Natural Foods is headquartered in
Loveland, Colo." Pars

[parsley]

Cargill is into every aspect of food. Incl. organic.

2. Sweeteners from Cargill

http://www.nutraingredients.com/Research/Bio-
organic-sweetener-from-Cargill?
utm_source=copyright&utm_medium=OnSite&ut
m_campaign=copyright

[parsley]

3. Salt from Cargill

http://cargillsaltinperspective.com/better-for-you-
better-for-business/

[parsley]

Well, I just decided to search for organic and
Cargill on their website, and let you choose to
read or not read about organics.

http://find.cargill.com/search?
entqr=0&output=xml_no_dtd&sort=date%3AD%3
AL%3Ad1&client=csegfood_na&ud=1&oe=UTF-
8&ie=UTF-
8&proxystylesheet=csegfood_na&filter=0&site=cs
egfood_na&q=Organic&NS-query.x=0&NS-
query.y=0&NS-query=Search