Can someone help me understand

[rkaiser]

Honesty is the key word here oneoff.

Ianben post has a lot of common sense in it and if Braveheart would not have used the "more" word, his post makes sense as well. As some of your post does as well oneoff.

However, the special interest groups who have made their way to the top of the monetary food chain and into government positions have done a lot of that ladder climbing with deception and not honesty.

And yes they started with a special interest. Look what we can do to feed a starving world. Bull Shit. Look what we can do to make money and lets not worry about telling the public all the details.

The problem that I have with all the fact staters on this site is that you all state facts supported by scientists who work for these companies and the governments that they have infiltrated and conned.

Companies that originally bull shitted you into the idea that you need to feed the hungry and now have you by the nuts financially because there is too much food.

And it is all about power and control. And if these mega business leaders can find some collaboration to make even more money with collective deceit, they jump at the chance as well.

The food industry is almost as bad as the oil industry and may --- I said may --- actually cause more human suffering. Collateral damage and outright killing of soldiers in wars over oil has been nasty, and the potential --- I said potential - for damage to human life from these experiments is real.

There is no arguing the fact that the land is less healthy with chem farming. Especially the life in the land that insures health.

And the cattle oneoff; are doing a hell of a job trying to filter the shit out with their three stomachs, but try to buy a liver these days. Yes a liver, the largest and most important immune system organ that is so overworked in our conventional cattle that it is almost impossible to find one to eat. Not that ours are much better. LOL

The health of the earth and the animals on a farm that is either organic or simply traditional is obvious, from the birds to the worms to the bees and the plants.

And if everyone would simply recognise these simple facts, we could have a reasonable discussion on this board. LOL

[BFW]

Randy, surely an old cattleman like you knows that cattle have 4 stomachs not 3

[Braveheart]

Yes sumdumguy I am sure. I will take canola oil
squeezed from a seed with a gene inserted to
make it resistant to Liberty before ecoli or
salmonella.

Part of the problem with debating GMOs is that it
is often not even about GM. The anti-corporate,
anti-globalization, Marxists, Anarchists et al, jump
into the discussion to further their cause.

My problem with GM is that we were promised all
manner of output triats once sales from input
traits recovered some research money. I hoped
for output traits that would improve human and
animal health, or new products fro industry.
Something that could move farmers into a new
value chain. But nothing. Just more RR
everywhere.

[ColevilleH2S]

rkaiser; "There is no arguing the fact
that the land is less healthy with chem
farming. Especially the life in the land
that insures health."

He must be a cattle guy if he has missed
the revolution that has happened to the
cropland on the prairies in the last 20
years. More earthworms, more organic
matter, less erosion, higher yields. All
because if the adoption of modern farming
techniques.

And what else has happened in this time?
The typical western person's lifespan is
healthier and longer. Why would one
advocate for a return to something less?

[wd9]

Simple coleville, to sell organic food.
Its marketing.

[ColevilleH2S]

Braveheart, I completely agree, if I have
to level a criticism at the industry it
is with the lack of vision it has to the
potential of this technology. They have
gotten fat and lazy off of herbicide
tolerance traits. It is now time to move
on.

Marine quality oils from plants, fusarium
resistant corn, nitrogen fixing cereals,
Saline tolerance, are what pop into my
head.

[rkaiser]

Whoops sorry Jeff. 4 not 3.

Healthier soil now than 20 years ago colvilleH2S? Maybe a little better than when more liquid nitrogen was being used, but more worms? Guess I will have to trust you on that one.. LOL Your name either makes me think you supplement your farm income in the oilfield or you have some other kind of chemical that you would like to use to enhance the worm population in your soil.

I will not say that summerfallow, the way the boys used to do it was either destroying or enhancing life in the soil, however your claims are narrowly based on chem fallow, or continuous cropping where soil enhancing creatures are replaced with fertilizers etc. I don't know if I would advocate going back to cultivation summerfallow, but alternative crops are there for you to choose. As is grass and forage. Things that build more soil than even the desicated (sp) straw that you claim your worms are just lovin these days. Damn - if you seeded grass and had to have cows, how would you deal with your winter vacation. Unless your name has something to do with your real job and you are just trying to tell us farmers how to grow food? LOL

So the way to better discussion is to call people Marxists hey Braveheart. Your name sound like you have a little hero in you, is that the case? Are you a ONESAINT hero?

Maybe you should just try to get rid of me like one of your buddies did a few days back when he talked about my mother bending over for the wrong man.

wd has his typical reasoning - marketing. Like I said before wd - I know that I aint going to market squat to you and your marketing for Monsanto aint going to change my mind.

You don't need to market my friend, your top heavy system looks after that for you. Makes sure the price is low enough to keep you sucked in to the system.

Thought I would change my approach and agree with some of your thoughts. but obviously that aint gonna work. Your agenda are clear. Pound home "your" facts and defend your buddies at all cost. Good little army you have going there boys.

[Braveheart]

Randy, I don't want to get rid of anyone. I use
the moniker Braveheart because my
greatgrandfathers name was William Wallis ........

I don't anything about your Mama's lovers or
care.

But, having attended WTO meetings etc. And
witnessed lunatics dressed like butterflies and
turtles and demonstrating against GMOs,
McDonalds and Captialism, I am more than a
little jaded.

I also raise and sell grassfed beef, practice
holistic management on our grassland and most
of my heroes are cowboys.

As GMOs I just wish everyone would be very
careful about communication. Ag doesn't need
anymore fear pumped into to it? Or, is that the
agenda for some so the organic industry can gain
larger premiums? It's almost always about the
money. Is that your real agenda Randy?

[wd9]

"soil enhancing creatures are replaced
with fertilizers etc"

Holy crap, you should have stopped at the
3 stomachs.

[ado089]

Randy, I was not trying to get rid of
you, however I would like to see an end
of your toxic dogmatic lies. The point
I was trying to make is that anytime an
active choice is made rather than random
pairing the results is genetic
modification.

How often do you see tillage in nature?

When you have the majority of people
agreeing with a thesis its called
concensus...another key tennant of
science, but let's not let science get
in the way of a good marketing plan.

Happy fathers Day folks.