New GM debate in UK

[rkaiser]

Lies about what oneoff? You don't even want to talk about the lie that caused the world to turn to chem farming in the first place.

Are you calling me a liar for saying that my cattle became healthier after I stopped using feed that did not have the micronutrient balance due to chem enhancement. Tested by veterinary science. Somehting you would think you could understand. Nature is perfect and whenever humans screw with it for profit and greed, or the ultimate bull shit lie that you seem to support, it just does not work. I am not calling you a liar oneoff, just a lost little man who is trying his best to justify the money spent on his education.

Believe what you like oneoff, and enjoy yourself. Your tactics will never stop Kaisers or Hubers or the viral growing number of people in the world who have caught on to the big lie and the main reason you "believe" in modern farming practices.

Use your science oneoff. Use it to create something postitive so that you don't have to eat different foods than you grow for the masses. Food that you have admitted will have collateral damage. For an overall bullshit cause.

[ado089]

What is this lie you speak of Mr.
Kaiser?

[rkaiser]

Simply that we need to use chem based "modern farming methods" to feed the people on this planet.

I see the merit in no til ado. And the merit in increased production from fertiliser and monoculture ag techniques.

Does that make me a hypocrite and a liar? Shit man -

Find ways to deal with the raising of food that you would feel comfortable eating yourself.

Do you grow a garden ado?

[ado089]

I do grow a garden.

[charliep]

Ianben

A weird question but I note lots of Canadian farmers are concerned about extra costs of buying seed. How does the UK pay for developing new varieties? End use levies (pay a share of revenue)? Requirements to use certified seed?

I could be wrong but I don't think any farmer pays for seed, herbicides, etc to keep the big companies profitable. I assume they do it because they meet the agronomic needs of their crops and contribute to their businesses profitability.

[ianben]

We pay a royalty on all seed more info here at
www.bspb.co.uk as yet no link to herbicides or
fungicides but it has been tried with hybrid
barley and we are about to get clearfield canola
this fall but do not know the deal.

We do make a margin above SFP which in
practice just go on higher rents or land prices, I
actually think your crop insurance is a better way
to manage risk.

Thalidomide was tragic for those affected but can
you imagine half your children dying before they
are 20 like my great grandfather.
The progress has been astounding and the
mistakes tiny by comparison.

[charliep]

Thanks ianben

Here is the link.

[URL="http://www.bspb.co.uk/about.html"]bspb[/URL]

I think this is far greater challenge in western Canada than what technology we choose to improve crops. We need some way of improving our crop genetics and looking after agronomic needs down the road. An example is fusarium graminearium. Don't know what the model will be but has to be a priority. You can see from the conversation here progress will not be easy.

So for taking off topic. Just hate being a one trick pony without looking at the big picture.

[ado089]

I think we see a dichotomy in plant
breeding between the seed companies
focus on input traits and publicly
funded / academic research focusing on
output traits. The trouble with that is
that bio tech companies aren't going to
breed their products out of use and the
GMO debate is far too volatile for most
universities and publicly funded
breeders to go near. I find it
astonishing that with our level of
understanding in the fields of genetics
and breeding that we still struggle so
such with things like maturity, drought,
tolerance and disease pressure, while
having good things like multiple
herbicide tolerance. This becomes even
more perplexing when we live in aworld
where food security are part of the
everyday vernacular.

[ianben]

Fusarium was very bad here last year but down to
weather at flowering, no chemical treatments
worked.There was a slight varietal difference but
most of our varieties are very closely related
anyway and more related to time of flowering
than resistance I think.
As I have mentioned before I think we bred BSE
susceptible dairy cows with AI, and I think we are
doing the same with wheat and fusarium putting
yield as king.

[charliep]

ado089

Don't disagree but I note that who spends determines
where the money goes. To further, the new model is
the public sector spends on development but
commercialization is being handed to the private
sector. The private sector does spend on disease
resistance as witnessed by rapid responses to both
club root and improving black leg resistance in
canola. Someone commented that farmers take the
private sectors ability to respond to new new more
virulent diseases by not changing behaviour and one
of this days, this will bite in the industry in the butt -
i.e. a disease for which there isn't a
breeding/chemical solution for a long period of time.
But that comes to ianben and my comments on real
risk and the understanding there of.

[ado089]

Charlie, I understands new funding
arrangement but the very fact that club
root was a non issue shows that when the
motivation is there genes get isolated
and commercialized real fast. Developing
technology and how it gets implemented
are different things. The wonderful
thing about sustainability is that there
is a long term component to it. The
question is whether or not those willing
to trade short term gain for long term
sustainability bring the rest of us down
with them. Continuing on that thought
pests have been adopting to our
countermeasures even back to adapting
different morphology to resist hand
weeding.

[parsley]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-
1082559/The-GM-genocide-Thousands-Indian-
farmers-committing-suicide-using-genetically-
modified-crops.html

[charliep]

So all the evils of the world can be dumped on one
small piece of technology and one company. Your
discussion is with your neighbours who use the
technology. Companies go where the financial
rewards are.

[charliep]

In the natural weeds aren't necessarily a bad thing.
They cover the ground and prevent erosion, etc. It is
man who tries to pick winners and losers. Diseases
knock off the weak plants and allow the stronger
plants to survive. We can move back to that world
again but I am not sure whether that will feed a world
of 7 billion people today or support North American
farmers in the life to which they have become
accustomed. Perhaps Africa is the best example of
what would happen noting another thread here.

[ado089]

I'm a fan of using all the tools
available as part of an integrated pest
management system, it would just be nice
to see multiple sources for new tech
again. It's not always that my financial
and agronomic needs align with the
economic goal of the bio tech industry.