Pipelines?

[Hamloc]

Many times on Agriville we have discussed lack of timely rail service and the need for more rail service to the coast. Mulcair and to some extant Premier Notely are against any pipeline expansion for the movement of oil. This will increase oil movement on trains and hamper grain movement. So as a farmer who needs to export grain I am curious why you would support governments that will cost you money and lots of it?

[bucket]

What I heard was mulcair wants more refining done here. It's not about the pipelines it's what is in the pipelines.

Using pipelines for job creating upgrading oil makes sense.

[Hamloc]

More refining here is a great idea. The problem is the same environmental problems stopping pipelines will stop refining. Alberta's new environment minister is already raising the alarm on air quality. I am sure she is preparing us for a new carbon levy. It has been suggested for 30 years we need to refine the oil before it is exported. Very little has been done. Elizabeth May has stated that the Green Party wants oil left in the ground as have some candidates running for the NDP in Toronto. The Green Party wants us driving electric cars charged by wind and solar, a great idea not so practical on the farm when it is -40. Anyway, if refineries made financial sense they would have been built and the enviros wouldn't allow it anyways.

[FarmRanger]

It hasn't been done because it doesn't make economic sense refining it too far away from where it's consumed or it would have been done long ago.

In an election it doesn't have to make sense though, all you have to do is convince enough people to vote for you who don't understand the economics.

If people who actually understand the industry won't invest in more refining, why would anyone ever think the government can make building refineries any more viable by spending your tax money to build them?

[boarderbloke]

Wouldn't shipping a refined product be even more dangerous than shipping crude? Imagine a railcar of gasoline, talk about a bomb on wheels!
Between native bands and leftist governments, especially with Notley in AB now,,, there won't be any pipelines built in Canada to coastal loading.
Mulcair will not state whether he supports the construction of any pipelines, what so ever. So our provincial coffers and oil companies operating in SK will receive less than world price because market access will continue to be restricted.

[Oliver88]

Less pipelines = higher freight bill for farmers.

The oil will still move but will be on railway system and will compete with grain and potash to be moved. There will be the occasional spill and fire where needless deaths will occur but that's just collateral damage for the environmentalists.

Environmental regulations will stop pipelines and refineries from being built. Many in the left wing parties (some in Sask NDP) would prefer oil stay in the ground so we can advance our economy built on solar panels and unicorns.

Check out the "Leap Manifesto" that a lot of high profile NDP supporters such as David Suzuki all just signed.

[Oliver88]

Less pipelines = higher freight bill for farmers.

The oil will still move but will be on railway system and will compete with grain and potash to be moved. There will be the occasional spill and fire where needless deaths will occur but that's just collateral damage for the environmentalists.

Environmental regulations will stop pipelines and refineries from being built. Many in the left wing parties (some in Sask NDP) would prefer oil stay in the ground so we can advance our economy built on solar panels and unicorns.

Check out the "Leap Manifesto" that a lot of high profile NDP supporters such as David Suzuki all just signed.

[bucket]

Oliver88

Pipelines have nothing to do with higher grain freight rates. The increases are rubber stamped by the CTA/government.

Until someone has the ball to say after all the branch line abandonment and elevator consolidation, longer trains etc have resulted in lower freight rates and they are reflected as such - freight rates will continue to climb to a point agriculture won't make sense on the prairies.

[TOM4CWB]

Alberta, Premier Not ley and by extension Mulclair... ARE building a refinery (the most expensive ever built) in Alberta.

It is being done. We obviously need both pipelines and refineries. The pipeline debate is no debate at all... if common sense means anything...and political rhetorical correctness is set aside... the enviro extremest movement is 'sexy' to the NDP... so they want to draw that group of voters in.

This is not at all about practical economics... nor about saving the environment. It is about votes and winning the election. Then when the counting is done... folks would know... Mulcair will do whatever flavour of the day... steps his way. Promise nothing but illusion of balanced budgets. Deliver either a huge Carbon tax, or will have huge Deficits.

Imposing Carbon taxes will cost jobs, good manufacturing jobs... in Canada.

This does not add up.

The NDP is blowing and sucking at the same time.

[foragefarmer]

Tom4cwb

Good to see you got your daily political rant about the NDP or Liberals off your chest.

Now go back to the fax machine and pickup Harper's speaking points to see what you need to post for tomorrow, here on Agrivlle.

Tom, your always so negative when you should be so thankful that you can make political choices when voting here in Canada!!!!!!

[Oliver88]

With the left wing politicians this issue is not about economics, it's about "evil" oil and their dislike of it.

The economics behind Keystone (which Mulcair travelled to Wahington to campaign against) is acquiring a Brent Crude price instead of a landlocked oil price or Brent - rail freight.

No matter how you slice it Bucket, oil on the railways is competition to moving grain. The CTA will factor in demand for the railway services vs supply.
Than there is the delays caused by not enough cars or pulling power which caused some non-stop howling on here during the 2013-2014 crop year. So saying hauling millions of barrels of oil on Canadian railways doesn't cost farmers $ is insanity.

[bucket]

Agreed Oliver88. Then add in the increase in potash exports.

KS has ordered 6-175 car trains to be built. And they will want them turning quickly.

Railways in this country are the most underfunded infrastructure because of the likes of harrison and mongeau and their steady grip on government.

[sumdumguy]

The key to expanding infrastructure and (the public good) is government, visionary government.

[wakopa]

Well it was a good discussion, then along came a grumpy wheat boarder 😡.

[Hamloc]

I agree we need more rail capacity, what are the odds that the same aboriginal groups and environmentalists that are against a pipeline through BC would also be against another rail line? I think really good it will never happen.

Forage I am curious why if my opinion agrees with the federal conservatives am I repeating Harper's talking points? Why do progressives insinuate that a conservative cannot think on his own?