hillary and canada

[perfecho]

Hamloc, most of the major projects in my time have come through government incentives and help and sometimes direction.
The tar sands was greatly subsidized, and their incentives caused some of the obscene wages and uncontrolled growth. Even when oil was above $60, Ralph gave more tax incentives when his buddy Peter Elzinga became a lobbyist for Suncor.
Alpac, Husky upgrader and many more had much to do with gov incentives...nad direction.
The packing plants also had major gov involvement when everything was concentrated in southern Alberta. And, IMO, signed a deal with the devil...not to be involved with any other packing plants. During BSE, there were many groups trying to initiate something to bring us out of the squishing thumb of Cargill and Lakeside Packers, but to no avail...and remember what the Feds dug up on how much money was being made.
Railways, power, telephone networks, all had gov involvement and some were initiated by the government of the day....only to be sold to the "smart business people" and not for the betterment of "the people"....only some!

[Hamloc]

All good examples of effective lobbyists and how governments are corrupt. Many examples all across Canada too many to list. I think it would be fantastic if we could build more refineries in Alberta how many years would it take to get one approved and then how many years to get a pipeline built to ship the product from the refinery? A great dream, the Premier is just kicking the can down the road to make it look like she is doing something. All she is going to do is amass a huge debt.

[perfecho]

Just came across an article from 2004 when Fred Dunn, auditor general was looking into some of Ralph's gov....
"Although oilsands production increased by 74 per cent between 1995 and 2002, royalties from oilsands actually decreased by 30 per cent. Last year , Albertans only earned $200 million from oilsands, or nearly $800 million less than they did from video lottery terminals"
No wonder we have deficits like we do...so , I for one will give Notely a chance....don't think she can do worse.

[poorboy]

Refined gas has been piped for years from Edmontons refinerys to Calgary.

[TOM4CWB]

Poorboy,
Not sure if you missed my post above APPL is the line.

So OUR EXISTING pipe lines can transport any oil product... it is a RED HERRING to say refine the crude oil... if/when we do refine oil to a specific product/S... normal efficient distribution would be to use a pipe line FOR the finished products if capacity exists.

Since We are obviously short of pipeline capacity NOW to BC; west from Alberta... we also use much more dangerous transport with TRAINS and TRUCKS to fill the shortage of capacity... which is MUCH more costly and burns many times the amount of fuel (excess CO2 and N0x produced) to distribute these many petroleum products whatever they may be.

BACKGROUND on transport of liquid petroleums:

http://www.cepa.com/about-pipelines/types-of-pipelines/liquids-pipelines

"Moving liquids through pipelines
Producing oil fields commonly have a number of small diameter gathering lines that gather crude oil from the wells and move it to central gathering facilities called oil batteries. From here, larger diameter feeder pipelines transport the crude oil to nearby refineries and to long-haul pipelines. The largest pipelines, called transmission lines, transport crude oil and other liquids across the country.

Powerful pumps spaced along the pipeline push the liquid through the pipe at between four and eight kilometres per hour.

Liquids pipelines can be used to move different batches of liquids — on any given day a pipeline could be used to transport different grades or varieties of crude oil — with each batch of liquid is pushed along at the same speed along the pipe. Where the two batches do come in contact with each other there is a small amount of mixing that occurs — these small volumes, known as transmix, are reprocessed

Transmission pipelines transport crude oil to oil refineries — these are the facilities that convert the crude oil into petroleum products through various refining processes. Petroleum products are the useful fuels we use every day. Petroleum products include fuels such as gasoline, aviation fuel, diesel and heating oil, as well as hundreds of products such as solvents and lubricants, as well as raw materials for manufacturing petrochemicals.

Output From a Barrel of Oil (%)
Propane & Butane 2.1%, Light Fuel Oil 3.1%, Asphalt 3.9%, Petro-Chemical Feedstocks 4.5%, Heavy Fuel Oil 5%, Other 5.6%, Jet Fuel 5.9%, Diesel 37.4%, Gasoline 42.7%"