New trade agreement

[riders2010]

If you can convince the Americans to not subsidize All their farmers that would be the first step to have a trade deal based upon the actual merits. However it will never happen. So the argument is bogus that it's free trade at all.

We have a good supply of quality dairy product.

We have no competition in our grain handling, rail transportation, and equipment dealers. They pretty much soak us what ever they want. Read the thread on parts cost and then tell me if that free market system is working in any if those sectors.

[perfecho]

Really...
New Zealand is unique in that 95 per cent of milk production is exported with Fonterra collecting around 87 per cent of the milk. As a result, there is no ‘market price’ set through competition for supply.
Bad example.....

[perfecho]

d this and see how dynamic their milk sector is...http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-29/china-spurns-new-zealand-milk-and-12-000-farmers-see-red

[perfecho]

Should be "Read this"...

[foragefarmer]

Freewheat

"I do begrudge false wealth and unrealistic policies and distortions in the marketplace which harms consumers."

No, I guess you'd rather see the dairy farmer knock down so that that milk processors make all the money. Have you look at the difference between the $US to CAN$? The consumer would not be saying a dime. Dairy farmers are not subsidized they control the supply so that there is no overproduction. It's called supply demand, they get a fair price for their product, unlike us grain farmer.

Freewheat I really don't believe that you are concerned about the consumer one bit, based on the history of your posts throughout the years. They tell a very different story!!!!!!

[TOM4CWB]

Forage,

I spent weeks with SM5 folks doing Financials and talking this through with them at our CTEAM.

I did a little estimate... show me I am wrong that $40B is needed to buy out SM5 quota and farms.. to leave them whole.

Governments in Canada created this mess... they will need to fix it. Since a law made by our Gov... is the Quota... the people of Canada and the provinces should hold the value... not those given the quota in the first place.

SM5 folks know this. They are locked into a paradox... Someone is paying for all the overhead Quota is valued at.... Obviously both Canadian Consumers and Quota owners pay $B$$$.

So...Dig continue to your hole Forage... but should have known what you are talking about... before you started.

[TOM4CWB]

CTEAM is a national farm management training program for farmers and ranchers, that uses participants’ own farm data to create a strategy and develop a plan specifically for their farm or ranch. Coaching is provided as participants implement their plan, and each class meets four times over two years to complete the program.

The new CTEAM 2015-2017 module dates and locations are:

Module 1 – November 30 – December 4, 2015, Abbotsford, BC

Module 2 – March 14-18, 2016, Calgary, AB

Module 3 – December 5-9, 2016, Niagara Falls, ON

Module 4 – March 6-10, 2017, Ottawa, ON

The content CTEAM covers is operation management, understanding finance on the participants’ farm, planning for succession, human resource management and risk management. CTEAM graduates can earn credit towards an MBA at the University of Guelph and continue life-long learning as alumni, says Agri-Food Management Excellence.

Find more information, here.

https://www.realagriculture.com/2015/08/ames-cteam-farm-management-course-opens-for-registration/

I DARE you and Riders... to complete this training.

If you did... you would be changed people.

[wmoebis]

Could someone explain the quota price system.
Who sets the price?
Does the Gov't get any of it?
Isn't it just another risk producers take when they buy it, that someday it will be worthless?

[FarmRanger]

<i>"Have you look at the difference between the $US to CAN$? The consumer would not be saying a dime."</i>
Have you been to a store anywhere in the US? We pay much more for anything supply managed here.
I took a trip to Arizona back in early 2013 and compared prices; even took pictures so I wouldn’t forget.

Costco Phoenix:
2%Milk: 2 gallons = $4.99 = $2.50/gallon = $.67/litre .68CAN
Eggs: 5 dozen = $5.99 = $1.20/dozen 1.22CAN
Cheddar Cheese 5 lbs. = $13.99 = $2.80/lb. 2.85CAN

Costco Alberta:
2%Milk: 4 litres = 4.86 = $1.21/litre = 1.19US
Eggs: 5 dozen = $12.99 = $2.60/dozen = 2.55US
Cheddar Cheese 2.5kg = $26.59 = $4.82/lb. = $4.72US
At that time the Canadian dollar exchange rate was .98$US
<b>We pay almost double in Canada.</b>

<i>”Dairy farmers are not subsidized they control the supply so that there is no overproduction. It's called supply demand, they get a fair price for their product, unlike us grain farmer."</i>
It’s still a subsidy even if it’s not the taxpayer paying it. The only difference between a taxpayer subsidy and the Canadian consumer subsidy that we have is that low income single Moms wouldn’t have to pay a taxpayer subsidy.

[TOM4CWB]

WM,

Yes.

The Provincial Dairy Boards are into the Quota system up to their eyeballs.

Some quota is GIVEN away... some lottery type distributions... some applications as need for more production... but the vast majority is traded privately with oversight by the provincial Dairy Boards in each province... under provincial legislation.

Some Provincial Boards have Caps. Some Boards have a portion take back tax. A dogs breakfast of different treatments depending on province and which one of the SM5 you are talking about.

Millions have been made by broker producers buying and selling quota. It was VERY interesting to travel Canada to Halifax, Montreal, Niagra on the Lake... UPA day long discussions with SM5 top leaders... Maple syrup people... Apple people... CTEAM was a real eye opener. Trade was VERY high on the discussions... with top gov. people.

SM5 farms were over half of CTEAM... we debated... shared... and planned futures in all sectors of Canadian Agriculture.

If anyone wants to learn leadership... take the CTEAM 2 year program. As I said your mind will be altered!!!

[perfecho]

Again....most things are cheaper in the States...except health care, however I would rather be middle class here than there.
The quota system has some problems, now allowed to lease it, rent it etc. Quota is restrictive in getting started, however they are making some changes in that area.
The system can be fixed...instead of throwing to the wolves and allowing corporations to grind it down to the lowest level...in quality and price to producers.
Learn from their efforts and help bring others up to their level....although if you are spending your winters in Phoenix, you are doing OK....

[perfecho]

Again....most things are cheaper in the States...except health care, however I would rather be middle class here than there.
The quota system has some problems, now allowed to lease it, rent it etc. Quota is restrictive in getting started, however they are making some changes in that area.
The system can be fixed...instead of throwing to the wolves and allowing corporations to grind it down to the lowest level...in quality and price to producers.
Learn from their efforts and help bring others up to their level....although if you are spending your winters in Phoenix, you are doing OK....

[FarmRanger]

I appreciate that you think that the quota system can be fixed. Any tinkering that is attempted to "fix" it will only redistribute who gets to keep the capitalized future consumer subsidy that has been built up in the cost of quota.

The fact still remains though that it negatively affects the rest of us who get less for our exports because of Canada's protectionist attitude toward Supply management.
Where I spend my winters is irrelevant and certainly doesn't change the reality of anything I've commented here.

[perfecho]

Personally believe we should have protected more of our industry, before it was shipped overseas. The agreements do not seem to produce the "riches" we are promised....but they do make some companies quite wealthy. This agreement has been very secretive from the get go....why...if it's that good?

[FarmRanger]

Trade deals help you if your production is or has the potential to be exported and/or if you buy things which can be produced elsewhere. So they're pretty much good for everyone.

Mulcair's "This agreement has been very secretive" line is a bit disingenuous. He'd never negotiate a Union contract that wasn't behind closed doors. Why?, because that would have a greater chance of derailing the chances of a deal.
So when he claims it's being secretive, he dishonestly positions himself as being open, when he knows full well that like a labour contract, it will increase the chances of wrecking any deal if someone leaks details before its signed.
And wrecking the trade deal is what he wants anyway so its a win/win. Read the " [URL=http://tinyurl.com/p3ga42l]leap manifesto[/URL] " sometime if you want to read about a surefire plan to devastate the economy.