Is U.S. Heading for Negative Rates?

[farmaholic]

The insanity is charging negitive interest to the very people who deposited money in these institutions that they used to run their fractional reserve banking system. (If I understand it right) And mismanaged.

[cottonpicken]

Farm,this type of stuff has happened lots and lots of times throught history just never to us.

Dont let the fear porn get to you its all relative and an apartment block or an oil well or a quarter section will always produce an income. The bottom of the rabbit hole is everything dies but at that point who gives a shit the survivalists will wish they where dead. Humans have always been top of the food chain. We always adapt and overcome.

[errolanderson]

farmaholic . . . you are right, a house of cards.

Ever watch Million dollar listing New York, LA, San Fran? Real estate deals from $3 to $20 million are always all cash.

This is hyper inflation seen in certain sectors of U.S. Economy as cash funnels into rich man investments.

[farmaholic]

Is this why we've seen such a sharp spike in farmland prices in Sask? Besides the fact it was undervalued compared to other places, it would have been a perfect opportunity to both park some some money in a solid asset and get a hell of a return from appreciation alone. I think it's run it's course though and appreciation won't be any where near the run up we had, now let's see what it's ROI is just being able to rent it out.

Thanks for the response cotton and Errol.

[biglentil]

round n round she goes where she stops no one knows

Hey look China and Russia have stopped drinking the punch and are headed for the door. Oh oh others are leaving too and dumping their punch back in the bowl, sick. Comon really no one wants the punch? Nope! US this party isn't fun anymore you soiled yourself and Canada is off puking in the bathroom. We are all outa here! Good luck with the mess and hangover loser. China and Russia are having a great party down the hall and we hear their punch is laced with gold.

[farmaholic]

...the result of greed. Probably bought off political system. Self regulation. Incompetance and mismanagement.

If we all ran our live/finances like this where do we end up? Hitting the default and reset button...

[grefer]

Excuse my ignorance guys but whose money would the bank loan under negative interest rates. Why would you leave your money in the bank for negative returns. Why wouldn't the whole system implode.

[farmaholic]

Lending more than was ever in circulation or a reasonable ratio of what is in circulation is what screwed it up. Why quit now?

[farmaholic]

Lending more than was ever in circulation or a reasonable ratio of what is in circulation is what screwed it up. Why quit now?

[cottonpicken]

If we get a negative rate on deposits they will have to ban cash. And lots of economists are calling for that.

Negative rates in the bond market are happening but in those spaces like Germany i think it is an actual bid as investors are so spooked they are simply looking for the absolute safest places.

If/when the central banks go full retard,time to get the popcorn out.

[biglentil]

Banning cash will only make gold shine brighter than ever. Paper is always just paper and gold is money period.

[cottonpicken]

This just popped up on zero hedge .

With the benefit of hindsight, the two-day devaluation of the yuan in mid-August might have been a masterstroke of strategy.

China executed a financial move that appeared to undermine its own position but instead created trouble for the US; how much is still to be played out. So was the devaluation a well-executed move against the dollar, or are the Chinese authorities as clueless as any other government?

For a clue about how the Chinese might approach these matters, I am indebted to Simon Hunt of Simon Hunt Strategic Services for drawing my attention to a speech by General Qiao Liang, the Peoples Liberation Army's military strategist, delivered about six months ago. The General makes it clear that China's external relationships are pursued through financial, not military means. China pits subtle tai chi against America's brash pugilism. It is therefore quite possible that China's August devaluation was planned and timed to undermine America's financial position.

This possibility is disregarded by nearly all financial commentators, who have been fixated on the bursting of China's credit bubble. This would be a major crisis for a western economy, but it allows China to reallocate economic resources from legacy industries towards the monumental task of developing Asia's infrastructure with the promise of its future markets.

Regarding the August devaluation as designed to enhance the competitiveness of the Chinese currency is too simplistic. The way to look at it is China actually triggered a wide-spread revaluation of the dollar. By undermining US export markets, China has effectively taken control of America's interest rate policy from the Fed. She has shown that China, not America, now sets the pace in the global economy. General Qiao made an interesting point in his speech: China's Alipay alone settled more purchases by value in just one day over China's "Valentine" holiday last November, than all US online and retail outlets over the three-day Thanksgiving holiday.

Exercising control over someone else's currency is not an end in itself. By doing so, China has weakened the negotiating position of her suppliers of raw materials, exposing countries as diverse as Brazil and Saudi Arabia to financial chaos, because of their commitment to the US currency. By whipsawing the dollar, China has exploited the currency disparities between global trade and its financing, and has pressured her suppliers into offering favourable supply agreements. For confirming evidence, see how super-tanker day rates have soared as Saudi Arabia has cut its oil price to China, and how the copper price has held up since mid-August, suggesting there has been accumulation of this vital metal even while emerging markets slump.

This, as the cliché goes, was a win-win for China. Her small devaluation in mid-August triggered a series of events that has allowed her to cash in some of her dollar stockpile at favourable rates to acquire the raw materials she needs for the future. Either she was very lucky, or she had thoroughly analysed global dollar flows before acting. It so happens that dollar flows featured in a large section of General Qiao's speech, which suggests luck was the lesser factor.

The timing, in geostrategic terms, also helps confirm the General's financial war theory. The IMF had decided the week before the devaluation to not include the yuan in the SDR basket before September 2016, when there was every indication it had already qualified (the decision was written up on 4th August and subsequently announced in a press release on 25th August). This removed the immediate prospect of the yuan gaining international marketability through conventional, post-Bretton Woods means, and could have decided China's course of action.

No doubt, the IMF hoped that by delaying the yuan's inclusion by a year, their American masters would be appeased and China would be kept on the SDR hook a little longer. Instead, it appears that China took the view that the existing international order of the IMF and the World Bank set up under American control at Bretton Woods, was just stringing them along.

The realities are stark. China and Russia between them dominate Asia where the majority of the world's population resides. Both super-states are also securing their spheres of interest: Russia in Eastern Europe and the Middle East, and China in South East Asia. After Syria, Russia can be expected to encourage the rest of the Arab world's economic interests to be aligned with Asian markets, while China can rely on her influence to cement economic interests throughout South-East Asia.

China and Russia are the moving forces in the Shanghai Cooperation Agreement. This well-established relationship contrasts with the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement, formally signed only this week, which is America's response to China's increasing economic power. President Obama said it himself: "....we can't let countries like China write the rules of the global economy." However, it won't come into effect for some time, and the only mainland Asian nation to sign is Vietnam. All the others, unsurprisingly, have stayed away.

Therefore, despite the TPP Agreement it appears that China already has East Asian trade sewn up. The Chinese alliance has also helped give Putin the power to leave America and her NATO allies flat-footed and strategically outmanoeuvred at the other end of the continent. Putin this week visited Merkel and Hollande in Paris to brief them on Syria and Ukraine, and presumably remind them where their future economic interest lies. Even Britain, one half of the Anglo-American special relationship, was the first outsider to join the new Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank. So at the same time as the US-dominated IMF deferred the yuan's inclusion in the SDR, America's military and financial hegemony was visibly failing.

China's next move could well follow after this weekend, when the IMF and World Bank hold their annual meetings in Lima. It will be the IMF's last chance to take a more constructive approach to China. If the IMF fails to do so, we should expect China to step up her "tai chi" against America and her currency even more, in either of two ways. She could temporarily withdraw entirely from key commodity markets, destroying the US shale-oil industry and inflicting enormous commodity-related losses on the western banking system. That might be too aggressive. Alternatively, China could continue to dispose of the bulk of her remaining dollar reserves, cashing them in for commodities, and giving her embattled suppliers some breathing space. The latter restrained course would be more in keeping with securing her strategic objectives. The sting will be the insistence that, in future, trade deals for raw materials will be conducted more often in yuan, once China's dollar reserves have reduced to more modest levels.

Whether or not China has actually succeeded in controlling external events so much to her advantage must be a debatable topic: a financial war leaves no bodies, only a series of events for historians to unpick. The post-Lima manoeuvres have yet to play out; but with respect to the demise of America's military and currency hegemony, whatever course China decides to follow from hereon, she does appear to be pushing on an open door

[cottonpicken]

Would also add what happened to vw and that 18 billion dollar penalty was quite the slap in germanies face.Economic war. GM just had a car glitch kill a few hundred people and its fine was a few hundred million.

Lots of germans never wanted to sanction russia,so if they side with russia/china there goes central europe.

If that guy is right about china stepping out of the commodity markets,all of us personally would get hammered.

[sumdumguy]

Short-Short-Short

[cottonpicken]

Rumuor out that nato jets have green light to engage if provoked and a true story a few hours ago russia said your with us or your with the isis,us response :we will not work together"