New idea

[pourfarmer]

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[grassfarmer]

I think the problem with your idea cotton is the market. We do a similar thing with our grass-fed beef /pork - not certified organic because we do a few things that organic doesn't allow and we also do a few things that go beyond what organic requires and are important to our customers.
Point is we are dealing direct with the customer where you can explain why you do things the way you do.

I'm assuming you are wanting to go on producing commodity grain but get some kind of premium for changing some of your methods in the organic direction? In the mainstream marketplace there are two categories organic and not organic. It would be hard to create a market that's in between unless you are dealing direct with customers who you can have a dialogue with and work on a mutually beneficial product.
I think you could create a local market using grain produced a certain way if you turn it into flour or bread but don't expect Cargill or ADM ever to pay you a premium for it. They want product to be bland, non-specific and the same the world over.

[hobbyfrmr]

Grassfarmer, you nailed it. Brand your farm and sell your production that way. You can talk to customers, educate them, and tell them what you don' t do , and what you do in your production methods.
Now your talking value adding, cleaning, small packaging, marketing meetings, distribution, order fulfillment, business plans, websites, e-commerce. Do you want to spend your vacation time building business at trade shows, or dump it through the grates, get paid and (generally speaking) be satisfied
I know that being an organic farmer is helping, but I am still a "bulker". My grain goes to market in Btrains and rail cars. I am missing out on lots of value added profit, but, at this time, I want to be a farmer, not a commercial marketing specialist .
It could be simple if you want to make the efforts. I think Klause did a small package project with wheat, sold it on EBay.

[hobbyfrmr]

Klause Reply posted Nov 26, 2014 11:03
freewheat, here's a fun experiment.

Clean up a couple bu of wheat. Fill it into 1 and 5lb bags. Take a good picture of the sample before bagging it, then go onto Ebay and list "Sustainably produced Flour wheat for sale".

Charge 6.75 a lb for it.


I did that for giggles a few years ago. Sold 50 bu of really clean nice red wheat in a week for an insane profit

[grefer]

Cotton. I would suspect that if there were to be another separation in food production under semi organic or whatever it would be named you would find that it would need standards that would keep the producers that are producing for that market honest. Much like the organic sector has had to do. I know I know. The producers who detest organics will say that it won't stop cheating. I would be a fool to think it isn't happening on some farms. But like most things in life there are always cheaters. Enforcement of any kind can only do so much. I can understand why conventional producers get uptight with some aspects of the organic industry but as with many things there are those on both ends of the spectrum and everything in between. At the end of the day if the only thing the organic industry does is to get people/producers to ask themselves if what conventional ag is doing is the only way,it is worth having around.
Hobby.You need to put happy faces in or something in some of your posts. I have trouble telling sometimes when your bring sarcastic or not. I agree that the conventional farmers in my area grow outstanding crops under difficult situations at times with too wet or too dry. Most of my friends are conventional farmers and I hear what they are saying. It is echoed on here and many of the issues of years ago are much the same now. The biggest difference I see is the incredible cost of inputs and farm machinery. I applaud you all for having the balls to pull it off year after year. I'm afraid I would be ill and be of little use to anyone. Good luck to you all. You to Freewheat.

[freewheat]

grassfarmer. You do pasture pork too? I am heading that direction on some of my land next year. Any pointers? I have a line on some berk/tam sows and I truly see a large profit potential for my farm going this route on some of my wilder acres.

Profit that seems kind of crazy in fact, using current fence, grain, and pasture pork prices...

[perfecho]

I have used the term "ethically" raised...use vaccinations, but not growth implants, medicated feed.....use a spray for some weed control, but not using a chemical after the seed has set.
Believe there is a good balance between underuse and overuse that can be profitable, sustainable and "good" for all.

[farmaholic]

If people want less pesticides and fertilizer or what ever the industry has to quit penalizing me for not spraying for disease and insects. My goodness. They want it cheap and perfect, how is that working for you? I bet the grain we produce could well be less toxic in its raw form in comparison to fruits and vegetables in their raw form. Do you wash your fruits and vegetables bought in a store? Can't wash off whats in the flesh of them....

[cottonpicken]

You guys are all right. Didnt see anything i dont agree with. Just a pipe dream. Except maybe the focus could be on animals. Even mcdonalds went antibiotic free a few weeks ago in eggs.

It just seems like a big shift and a void is happening like a vaccum.

Where the hell is Pars?

[15444]

For every market that wants organic, there are two that want otherwise. Price is still king in the big picture. Met a local food coordinator that was able to gain insight from Sysco Canada as to the key factors influencing distribution. Price is all they said. Majority of the food product is imported because food service companies, hospitals, etc are more worried about bottom line than quality. One example, Sysco can import Aussie ground beef for $2/lb cheaper than they can buy CDN ground beef here.

[farmaholic]

Thats what happens when you let the industry implode and some of the inadequate government money that should have"trickled" down to help cushion the Producers from the blow of BSE stayed in corporate hands.

You mean calves don't just appear out of thin air?

Fools...

[freewheat]

I think marketing directly is where the money, and most importantly the control is.

I SET my lamb prices. I CONTROL when and for what I sell them for.

People want old style raised meats these days, and will pay for it. As word gets out, the biggest problem seems to be supplying enough of it.

The profit I can pencil in for farm fresh/pasture/natural/non-gmo/halfway organic pork, eggs, chicken, lamb, duck, rabbit, what have you, in my projections, makes raising grain traditionally look even more quacky than I already think it is. At least in my situation.

Take a picture of a lamb in a pasture with a kitten on its back and a hen pecking at poop in the background, or a big old sow with a line-up of twelve piglets sucking away, out in a field of grass, and then sit in a chair at some city market, and people will buy based on that picture alone. It is the new reality. People buy based on perception. To NOT take advantage of what they think is great, is a big mistake, IMO.

I just wish I would have done it twenty years ago.

[farmaholic]

I admire your ambition and ingenuity but I'm too lazy and getting to old for that kind of physical commitment.

[hobbyfrmr]

Grefer, I used a smiley face with shades, Im not internet emoticon thingy socially skilled enough to know exactly what that means.
I purposefully use sarcasm and critical thought without "imposing" my philosophies on other posters. A person has to choose. There is no middle ground. This means you have to look at the bad side of both production models and choose the one you would be most comfortable with. I try not to bash conventional farmers because it does me no service. My neighbors are people trying to make a living the way they know how. The reality is what I described. They are very efficient and grow huge crops, employ locals and temporary migrants, they are the biggest RM and Town tax payers in 3 RMs. They provide the opportunities for employees to own decent vehicles, good recreational things, They supply houses for some employees. They have raised land prices and rents, which really lifted my net worth. That is all pretty respectable and by far more than I would ever do. I find it very difficult to dispute that the organic production method is better. A farmer really has to want to change his production models, because if your just doing it for money, that is not going to work for very long.

[cottonpicken]

That's the smartest thing you have ever said on here Free,good job.

Now you need a reefer trailer to the the market in toronto,I have been there quite the siteyou really cant imagine it seriously,a pamphlet a web page and a big picture of the family farm in the background.

God knows what you could charge.