New idea

[hobbyfrmr]

Freewheat, I agree that what you describe can be done.

When you start selling your lovely free range, no hormone, no antibiotic, naturally raised pork to those starving Syrian refugees (actually political migrants but that's another discussion), you know you have "made it" in the world of marketing.

[freewheat]

Cotton. Vancouver is closer, prettier, perhaps even richer, and we have relatives there.

I have been to the Granville market. I know what a "farm raised" duck sells for. What they charge for chicken livers, sheep tongues, goat meat, hog ears. I have seen what the "farmers" of Richmond sell their wares for. It is mind bending what these people pay for a perception. In Vancouver, they sell pig heads, eyeballs included, for more than we out here will buy a whole dang pig for, cuz it is "too expensive".

I have been at my wife's cousins house when a "farmer" from Richmond came to the door selling fresh potatoes for 6 dollars a lb. AND THEY BOUGHT!!!

When you mention the reefer, it is exactly what we are shooting for. But we may head west instead of east. Heck, we may just supply a few of the rich folks in our own two major cities. I am actually embarrassed to say what we sell our lamb for in the cities.

And do the buyers complain? No, heck no! They rave about how we are charging, get this, NOT ENOUGH! lol

They see a leg of lamb for 26 bucks a lb in the store, and think our prices are unfair. To them? NO! They think we are undercharging them. What a place to be.

I can not get enough animals fast enough, honestly. In my case where my grain start up was less than stellar, and the perpetual struggle to build a grain farm under water and mud, I know where I will be going with my plans.

The consumers have spoken. They do not want to pay for bulk grain raised on big farms. They would sooner pay a small fortune for a potato, or a piece of an animal.

[grassfarmer]

freewheat, we added pasture pork to our beef sales and were doing up to 50 a year. Familes that bought a half beef often bought a whole hog also - more sales to an existing customer base is easier than looking for more new customers for one product.
I'm on sabbatical just now from direct marketing lol.

Very easy to do the pasture pork production wise, customers can tell the difference between commodity and outside raised pork easier than with beef, chicken etc. Not difficult to retail a hog out at $750-$800 compared to the current $180 for selling a commodity hog but you still have processing to pay for.
Don't get carried away with the genetics - I found the Berks or other "heritage" breeds crossed to a modern hybrid boar gives you the best product. Weaners bought out of a hog barn, raised outside can be just fine too - better than the straight heritage breeds that can be fat, slow growing uneconomic propositions.

Biggest pointers from my experience of direct marketing:

#1 integrity and honesty with your customers in everything you do. Treat them as you'd like to be treated yourself.

#2 find a processor that is good (and honest) - this will make or break your business.

I think it is a good direction for you to go freewheat given your climatic challenges to being a big scale grain producer. I wish you well in it - work hard and you will be well rewarded.

[freewheat]

Thanks grassfarmer. A lot.

One question on feed. I understand a pig needs about 6 lbs a day of feed on average from weaning to finish? If I help the pasture along with some grain, ( barley faba bean and wheat for example), how much will they get from grass/pasture, vs. grain?

IE will I need to feed them 3 lbs, or 2, or???

I do not have the growing season length to wait for grass only finishing, and hope to push them along a bit so they finish in reasonable time is all.

[farmaholic]

Valuable advice offered by grassfarmer.

Freewheat, from some of your previous posts I thought you mentioned some of your kids enjoy the livestock as well. That can't hurt but be safe!

Good luck if you make the transition.

[hobbyfrmr]

My neighbour grew faba beans 25 years ago to feed their hog operation. I remember him saying if you had too much faba bean in the ration they would have violent excretions!

[freewheat]

Hobby lol regarding the beans. I will take note of that!

Farmaholic, my kids LOVE the sheep. We gave them each a ewe lamb last year as pay for helping us with them. I don't know what they love more, the animals, or the fact their daddy is not stressed when caring for the sheep like he is getting stuck or being unable to combine.

My youngest boy was begging for a girl and a boy pig for his birthday last year so they could have lots of babies.

Point well taken on safety issues with kids. Sheep not bad except for the rams. Pigs are a bit more concerning for sure apparently.

[perfecho]

Although we are basically a purebred operation, the beef sales grew out of the kid's 4-H project. It grew by word of mouth only, didn't really want to, but it certainly added value during the BSE crisis...now I can't really let down my customers. This may take over as a retirement project...and I don't even sell be the pound...its so much a quarter and so far, it has been rave reviews...'best beef ever' are the comments.
We all know a carrot and a tomato can't be beat from the garden...so it really isn't about perception...it is about quality.

[grassfarmer]

freewheat, hogs are omnivores not herbivores so you can't expect to get too much from forage. Probably takes about 800lb of high energy feed from weaning to slaughter weight. If you raise them outside they will eat some grass but what they really like is roots. I wouldn't count on them getting more than a pound a day from forage. The more forage you rely on the longer it takes to fatten. Best use of hogs is to clear undergrowth/bush where they have shade, mud, roots. They are "pasture raised" but in reality the biggest difference in product comes from the fact they are running about outside in fresh air not in a stinky hog barn with thousands of their litter mates. The hogs make great entertainment for kids and I enjoyed having them - they are so smart.

[freewheat]

Tis true about quality, freshness, etc. No doubt about it. But I also feel people buy based on perceptions of what they term hatefully, as "BIG AG". People like small ag. lol

[cottonpicken]

Pigs where always my favorite also except they always turned into pets i swear they would smile at us and when they got out they ended up at the house.

I would double think abou diversifying,maybe makes more sence to do more of one.

Remember hearing canada actually imports sheep and goats not to sure though.

This is all beyond me but maybe you could ship whole carcasses and let them do the butchering just skin and gut yourself.

Maybe Vancouver is better but I would call around. Maybe want to target the Muslim communities and build sort of a long term relation with someone you can trust and someone that trusts you that would take a lot of headache away maybe their shop already would have a reefer and pick up just kickin ideas around like i said i dont have much of a clue.

[Braveheart]

Vancouver is good, other cities as well. But, animals have to be slaughtered in federally inspected plants for interprovincial trade or movement. This is often the barrier for small farms to entering those markets.

[cottonpicken]

I forgot about communist/fascist canadian guidelines. Show me your papers sir you live in the greatest freeiest country on the planet i see you forgot to put on your seatbelt that's going to cost you commrad

[freewheat]

Cotton, Canada imports 55% of the lamb we consume. Goats are even better numbers. I have played with meat goat numbers, and have great land for goats, but can only do so many things at once.

I have a friend who targets the muslims, but they want intact males generally, and on a sheep farm, you need to have room for that. They also are cheap and only pay so much. They now show up un announced at her farm, and she regrets having started dealing with them.

Maybe there would be some who are more trustworthy, but a culture is a culture, and I assume they are generally the same.

Muslims are not on my radar. I want the rich, willing, and able to pay market. Delivered in a box to their doorstep, for stupid money a lb.

People who eat lamb are a different sort. They will cough it up to get their hands on it typically.

I am confident I could make a very good living with our local city folks, and a couple hundred ewes. On our fertile and moist land, that means using 50 acres for pasture, and 40 acres for hay. maybe 10 acres of grain.

100 acres should make a person a very good living, without the weather risk, the market risk, and the massive headaches that come with traditional grain. Heck, with that amount of land your machinery tie up would be so hilariously minimal. A 4020 and a cheap baler and haybine.

As I research the hog side of things, the margin is even more amazing.

I know a guy who raises hogs out on his pastures exclusively, and makes his whole living on less than 70 acres of land.

Your initial thoughts are feasible and doable!

[hobbyfrmr]

If you manage to sell pork to Muslims, I will be the first person to pay for your marketing skill.