Latest Liberal promise

[dmlfarmer]

Farmaholic: I too questioned the rise of oceans by the melting of the polar ice caps. However, I did not consider the impact of thermal expansion of existing ocean water as well. It is a fact water expands when heated. Why else do we need pressure caps and coolant expansion tanks on engines. Even a degree of rise in temperature of 1C will rise sea levels of more than 2 meters because when 71% of the earths surface is water, some of it miles deep, even a slight rise in temperature results in a thermal expansion rise. Couple this with not only the melting at the poles but also melting of glaciers around the world and ocean rise is not only beliveable but likely.

[Klause]

dmlfarmer, if every chunk of ice melted all over the planet, the oceans would rise 216 feet....

HOWEVER... this comes from the Antartic melting... which interestingly, it's actually expanding.

The ice in the artic is floating on water... it wouldn't have much effect on the height of the oceans.

The "rise" that alarmists are talking about comes from the fact that as water warms up, its volume becomes greater (like overflow in a hot engine when you fill the rad when it is cold).



DML, I didn't "cite" sources because we could spend millenia arguing back and forth. Google my figures and you'll find I didn't pick them out of the air.

Anyways, I'm done arguing about something that can't be helped and can't really be changed.

Humans haven't walked this planet long enough to effect anything... our existence on this planet, and in this universe is so short in relativity to everything else we can't cause any lasting problems anyway...


All the CO2 we burn / create / use was on earth and from earth, it goes round and round, but it can't become more, and it can't become less... That is the main fact nobody EVER looks at when it comes to these climate change yahoos.


Oh, and the reason that pipe is spewing methane? Us idiot humans keep building infrastructure over top of the gaps of tectonic plates. It was bound to happen, and actually gas naturally leaks when earth quakes fracture the earth's crust... tiny cracks let out huge amounts of gasses.

[Klause]

Oh, and the reason we need caps on radiators is to keep pressure in.

You see, water boils at 1 atmosphere of pressure at 100c. If you raise the pressure of the water in a vessel it remains liquid to a higher temperature.... There's some basic chemistry for ya.

and glaciers melting won't add any water to the ocean, they already float there... most of their mass is under the water surface, and water expands when it freezes....

[stonepicker]

dml I think i'll call bullshit on your last post about 1C warmer water will raise the oceans 6 1/2 feet. I'm thinking there would be a noticed difference in sea level everytime el nino or la nina hit ( and yes i know the 2 phenomon don't cover all ocean water )

[stonepicker]

ya! what klause said!

[dmlfarmer]

Klause: It is an iceberg which floats in the ocean and has most of its mass underwater. A glacier is ice that covers land, or can occasionally extend out over water (tidewater glaciers.)
The headwaters of all the major prairie rivers are partially fed by glacier melt in the Rockies. (Columbia icefields, Athabasca glacier etc)

And that is very basic chemistry (re radiator cap. Yes, it keeps pressure in because of the relationship of temperature pressure and volume (Boyles law if it were a gas) However Boyles law does cannot apply to liquids unless volumes are kept constant. Therefore by containing coolant in a closed system such as the coolant system of an engine with a pressurized radiator cap we see that temperature rise results in a pressure rise.

Stone picker, instead of just agreeing with someone because what they say agrees with your preconceived views and biasis, why don't you actually do some research and maybe you might learn something. I will make it easy for you. Google thermal expansion of the oceans!

[Hamloc]

First off, according to those in support of climate change, if all use of fossil fuels stopped today the average temperature will still rise by .75*C, so in that context more warming is inevitable.

Chuck2, would I want the oceans to rise and flood some coastal areas and islands, obviously not. I think if some temperature rise in inevitable money would be wisely invested in identifying the highest risk coastal areas and islands and relocating people or putting in some form of flood protection.

As for Dml's belief that I am in favour of the earth warming and not interested in curbing pollution, I don't believe I have ever said that. What I am against is unjustified growth in government and growth in spending and taxation with no real benefit.

[farmaholic]

Well then, let's just give the earth a big dose of radiation to rid it of the malignant metastasized tumor the human race has become to it.

I will never argue that mankind hasn't has some affect on the planet we call home but to say we can out power Mother Nature, to me, is a bit of a stretch. She controls some very powerful forces.

[farmaholic]

What I don't understand is how it can be expected that things aren't/can't/not supposed to change. There has been evolution since the beginning of time. Has human encroachment on other species habitats displaced or reduced their populations? You bet, but that also happens between other species as well. Now, have we, or do we have the power to influence something as complex and powerful as the weather/climate?

[foragefarmer]

The thread was titled " Latest Liberal Promise" and has switched to climate change.

It was brought up in an earlier post by Mustardman about the dead zones with in the oceans and lakes of the world.

The Experimental Lakes Area (ELA) on the Manitoba and Ontario borders was conducting studies on the causes of these "dead zones" which are very concerning to all of us. This world wide renowned research station lost all federal funding from Harper's Con/reform government in 2012. The total cost per year to run the ELA was $2 million. Peanuts for the work they were doing and the results that have come from the ELA on other issues.

So weather the carbon tax coming is good or bad personally I don't know, but the majority of you who are against it, are the same people who supported Harper. He stopped funding to the ELA which was doing excellent work just to save $ 2 million a year and they were getting results. Was the ELA a waste of taxpayers money???