Alberta Farmers offended by CWB...

[TOM4CWB]

Henbent;

In my opinion, every marketing decision that makes a profit for my farm, is a good marketing decision.

When I sell to the CWB, through the pooling accounts, I know I am leaving my decision to the CWB, and am not seeing a real transparent price, plus seldom can I build a transparent relationship with the party consuming my product.

Selling my farm production is part of a risk management strategy, so why can't I be making a good decision, every time, if I understand what I am doing?

I am not saying I get the highest price every time... but does the CWB get the highest price all the time?

I can prove the CWB system many times sells my grain for less than fair market value... Henbent... take a look at CWB barley marketing for one second!

Earl Geddes told us that this crop year the CWB called each farmer that sold feed barley to the pools... and basically them they must have made a mistake... that they could get much more money selling to the non-board domestic market!

Since the CWB knows, for a fact, that they are a disaster in marketing especially feed barley... and that many folks got more for feed barley than for special select Barley... am I supposed to take it, that I am to be a drone, and believe all CWB marketing is fair and maximising my returns?

AM I not to judge the CWB by the fruit of it's actions... which have been falling PRO's after some of the highest PRO's in history... with practically no volume to sell...

Mr. Earl Geddes told us in the CWB Red Deer Meeting that the CWB had contracted less than ONE 25,000 tonne boat load of CPS this crop year!

Yet the CWB PRO on this miniscule CPS purchase has gone through the floor... and the CWB has yet to accept more than 25% of my CPS!

I am supposed to believe this is effective marketing management of my risk, and timely sales of my grain?

[henbent]

Dyno, Wow, you said a mouth full. It appears at times that common sense is truly lacking on this thread. Some of these fellows, feel that they have an advantage over the rest of us poor folk and are will to do whatever it takes and grind us into the ground so they prevail. No, I will not go quietly into the night and become part of history. Smoke and mirrors do not make a marketing system.

[TOM4CWB]

Henbent;

You just wrote...

"Smoke and mirrors do not make a marketing system."

Think about this for just a second...

You believe in a "single desk monopoly" that only takes from "designated area" farmers... yet must compete against other marketers who sell wheat and barley... and this CWB has decieved you into believing that with a 5% market share... the CWB can extract a premium and tell consumers off if they don't like the CWB's price.

The CWB directors have been told... and Know that this "market extraction" power does not exist... that the CWB must compete against everyone else in the world for a sale... including the Ontario Wheat Board... without any help from the "CWB Monopoly"... as the customer will buy from someone else if the CWB does not bring it's price down.

SO the only person the CWB has a monopoly over is you Henbent... and the "Henbents" of the world allow the CWB to justify taking the property of their neighbours... with out permission... through expropriation... without fair compensation...

Isn't this the most innovative "Smoke and Mirror" marketing scheme on earth today?

[TOM4CWB]

Henbent;

I see the CWB opened the CPS contract to 50% open on some train runs!

This situation is a total joke... most folks I know are delivered well over the CWB call level... and this call will only bring in 5000t... BIG DEAL.

Too bad this wheat had not been shipped out in October when it was worth 30% more than it is worth today!

[henbent]

TOM4CWB, I suspect that the CWB probably has/had a marketing plan in place relating to CPS Wheat, hence didn't blow it all out in October. Bad plan, maybe, time and results will tell. As well there was a grain handling dispute going on last Fall as I recall, logistics problem shipping. Lots of low grade wheat flowing into the world market from other exporting nations probably had a bit to do with sales as well. How could your neighbours sell more that they should? Did they blow it out on the open market?

[TOM4CWB]

Henbent;

Much of this CPS wheat was bought on the 90% PRO plan... at prices well above the CDN domestic feed price...

As for selling last Oct. Nov. of 02... I don't understand how you consider selling during this time period as "blowing it out" when demand was the highest then, the price was the highest... and the commercial grain producer needed money to pay bills from the 2002 crop incurred during the production year.

If you didn't need money last fall... good for you... but many of us are not rich enough to be able to finance a whole crop without borrowing a substantial amount... that needs to be repaid during the Oct. Nov. time period each year. Since during this time period... high prices do occur many years... why not let us sell our grain then for cash?

[henbent]

TOM4CWB, In our case last Fall, we were in the designated drought area. In other words no crop was harvested. That which grew was sold to neighbours at a reasonable price so they could keep their cow herds, somewhat intact. At lucky few even had crop insurance. Marketing not an option last year pal! Local grain company saw what was happening slammed the doors in July and now want to sell us inputs instead, no longer buying grain. To bad so sad. New way of doing things, off load more expense onto farmers shoulders in trucking, I am looking forward to the next kick in the n--s these guys have planned for us.

[henbent]

Henbent and dyno: I think it is great that you have the CWB to pool and sell your grain and I would be all for a pooling account for canola and pulses too. If one wants to use this way of marking it is his business but don't make your way of business my way of doing business. Democracy is the ability to choose not to force others to compliants on such simple things as marketing a commodity.

Your freedom to pool your marketing has imprisoned my freedom to marketing choice. Your stating my form of open marketing will destroy your market pooling. I say it will only destroy it, if marketing choice proves more beneficial to producers.

You have a fear that a change of marketing will leave you on the outside looking in. Look around you the world has several sellers of the same item in every town and city. Competition, service and quality rule the day. Transparency of markets dictates what you produce to make money.

We're not one big happy family in the farming industry, farming is a business. Co-op's are fine but there are other choices in my community. Large publicly traded farms will never be totallly successful in grain or cow calve operations because there is to much financial risk involved. Put Wheat and barley on the WSE and lets get some transparency into pricing and farming won't be done on a hope and a prayer. Better business decisions canbe made with more freedom of information.

I know you boys don't like my free enterprising spirit but consider this, I thought I made a mistake once but I was wrong I didn't.

[boone]

kernel,kernel,kernel if you in deed have both marketing choices and at the end of one year or two years etc. if one style of marketing is 5 cents more or less or even 50 cents do you truly think that will prove anything? Consider for a moment that both sets of knuckle heads in a battle to show who has the most clout could discover a price 100 cents or more under a measured sales program. This is the risk, and we see it everyday in all kinds of product. This is not a given, but it is a very real risk! Price discovery by a bunch of toll handlers that don't get paid on a pecentage basis, is a lose-lose situation waiting to happen.
One other thing here, is the fact some buyers would prefer to be secretive, as they sometimes are paying northern U.S.,Eastern Bloc, sellers or anyone that thinks it has a like quality product in the world, considerably less, by pricing their grain on the open market at a price that can be significantly less, and will be used to blend down our quality and price to the final user. There are two sides to consider here, not just Cargills right to know!

[boone]

What about the kernel's right to know. The CWB is already the toll handler and no one there will answer questions that need answers. I really don't see the harm in a test market.

What is the wheat board afraid of,
the truth.

I guess we will leave it to Ralph to sort it out so the agricultural industry can be come sustainable in to the future.

The CWB is an add hock program to distribute the wealth in agriculture. (take it or leave it Dyno)

[TOM4CWB]

Boone;

Youv'e written;

"Price discovery by a bunch of toll handlers that don't get paid on a pecentage basis, is a lose-lose situation waiting to happen."

SO why can't you find marketers who will treat you fairly... when many of us serious commercial farmers have no problems finding, developing.. and keeping heathy business relationships with our voluntary marketing partners?

I don't get it!

Are you and Henbent so mean and ornery that no one wants to do business with you folks?

[boone]

Tom4cwb et al, Your correct I can be ornery. When someone fails to work for general improvements for all I can be a bear. Let's go over these points again. Toll handlers have no reason to maximize my earnings. They take a slice. They are like a stock broker, if I don't trade they don't get paid. Price is secondary. (see:churn and burn) It's a bent incentive. The CWB has no reason not to maximize my returns. It is the only measure of their credibility. It is easy to follow the results of their successful choices, and or mistakes. In the other system it always appears that by placing a sale, you have made good or bad choices. The CWB on the other hand is like a mutual fund, where it is easy to follow and critique, but never have to decide when to hold and fold. The only thing that will damage the latter is lack of discipline, and research. Now how many brokers that sold single stocks to clients are held up to blanket scrutiny. Generally the client quietly shivers alone, with little recourse. Does this analogy work for you. As far as your personal results, my observation is that if you yourself are a big fish in a small pond you may be served well, but fear the day that you become more like the rest of us. Small fish in oceans of supply. IMHO

[henbent]

boone, You have summed it up very well, but be careful the voice of experience and common sense is rearing its ugly head. We should/must work at things together, big farmers with their volume economics are struggling just as much as little guys. We produce the same commodities and generally receive the same return on products produced. Europe and USA have decided to subsidize ag in a big way. Canada on the other hand has done the opposite. Apparently by signing NFTA we have even agreed to give away our natural resources. We must have Sh-t for brains in this country, if this is true!!

[charliep]

Boone

1) Are you saying that grain companies (either domestic handlers or exporters) are making excess profits?

2) What is the CWB's vision for the grain industry in 5 to 10 years time - based on the assumption that the EU/US will continue to provide massive subsidies and the new upstarts (South America, Eastern Europe and Former Soviet Union) will continue to increase production?

3) As we move from commodity base marketing to value based (my vission), won't the industry need to pull together a lot better than we do today? I take exception to always beating on the grain trade. If the CWB can do a better job of handling grain, then they should get involved in this business. There may be facilities available for sale in the not to distant future.

4) I like you mutual fund analogy. I make the personal choice to invest in mutual funds (disciplined monthly investment) for the same reasons you point out for the CWB marketing (don't have time, not disciplined, let emotion get in the way of good business sense, etc.). I have choices of mutual funds as well as other investment alternatives. I have the ability to pick and choose based on my personality and investment needs. Shouldn't farmers have the same opportunity to market grain?

[boone]

CharlieP My answer to your first question. Lately I'd say no, but if CWB doesn't carry the line companies collection risk on board grains they will have to increase the basis. In a perfect world over time without collusion it should uncover the lowest cost handling provider, but in essence the board doesn't have to stretch basis against risk, remember for the most part it has been on a best effort basis, with points made earlier here as drivers. However: if you think in terms of who the resulting players would be in that new world order. My mind drifts to subjects like (lysine,corn fructose,vitamin a, vitamin c etc.) that all have been tainted with manipulation, and not for the betterment of primary growers. Do I need names here? The chance of a divisional manager of any one of these multi-food processors not applying maximum punitive financial extraction is slim to none. Because the commodity market is on permanent quicksand, they see no value in paying out anymore than lipservice to "value teaming".(sharing the value added) They will not pay any more premiums for Nexera etc. than will be necessary to trigger enough bushels regardless of the profit margin they enjoy.#2 I hope CWB has an answer for that. I see only a hesitant advance here, no bold steps. How do you look ahead when your always shaking off rat terriers. AgCanada has capitulated to the"FALLING STAR" of genetic engineering, which is a hold over from the plans of Mulrooneyism.
#3The major investments being made in northern Brazil,China,Eastern Europe by our World class players is a move back in time when they reign supreme and profits weren't tied to federal treasuries whims to scale back or manipulate the supply of different raw materials. They understand those rules better. I think the best way to extend our usefull life may be IP non GMO, and use our livestock to purge the system of unacceptable classes and varieties, while that is still allowed.
#4Your cropping options are a good choice system go high yield cps if you want one market and leave the HRS and Durum to the CWB. Canola, mustard, Peas,Oats, feed barley, etc.it's one hell of a list. IMHO