Alberta Farmers offended by CWB...

[TOM4CWB]

Boone;

I do not understand your answer to question 1.

My understanding is that I choose who the CWB will do business with... not the CWB.

Tendering and returning tender profits to the pooling accounts rewards those who do nothing to take the extra effort to make a more efficient marketing and grain handling transaction... since this wealth is taken from those who do the extra work in creating the efficiencies. From what I see the Multinationals are laughing while what is left of the co-operative grain handlers discount each other into bankruptcy.

This system is neither productive of sustainable... for either the farmer or the grain handling system.

Why do you think it is so great?

[boone]

Tom4cwb; the system used to be more reflective of a push style operation, now it is starting to take on a pull.
With CWB indicating what the buyers want and tendering (as mandated by federal government)to the grain companies. As the successful bidder is forced then to bring in the product, the only thing that the farmer chooses is which truck hauls it to the highest paying point. To do it any other way is part of the old 50% system where delivery first followed by tendering would come into play. The system is in this state of flux right now and is as dynamic as we may see it. The elevators have many costs, but collection on CWB accounts is not one of them. That will change, if they export directly (unpaid sales amortized back into total revenues) even if they carry " Federal Export Developement Agency" insurance the cost of a premium will be added back into the basis. The same system smaller pulse exporters use. It is a severe rationalization of the industry, much like the air carriers have been involved in, and yes there will be wrecks,. So fasten your seat belts till you see the lights turned off.

[charliep]

Boone

Issue no. 1 still bothers/intrigues me?

Thoughts

1) The CWB is not in the business of handling grain. They rely on outside companies to do this.

2) CWB business has been (perhaps before tendering) one of the most profitable components of a grain companies handle (limited/no price risk, guaranteed handle plus terminal revenue, etc.). The risk you talk about has been carried by the farmer and the tax payer.

3) Consumers/users of services vote for the companies who succeed by where they do business. We all love to hate big US box stores but we are fighting with everyone else to find a parking spot at a Walmart. There are concerns about Monsanto market power but farmers use roundup because it has a fit in the business.

4) I think doing a better job of satisfying consumer needs will be our niche in the next 5 to 10 years (doing what we already well and have respect for in the world even better).

5) Adding value closer to home versus exporting off shore will be a key to increasing the value of crops. I would rather deal with my neighbor than someone an ocean away.

That to me raises the question of what kind of businesses and business relationships western Canada will need to make these things happen. Everybody talks about value chains but nobody (including me) is able to do an adequate job of describing/developing).

[boone]

CharlieP #1 This is a given CWB is not at this time in that side of the business. Some might argue by enhancing the Producer Car Shipping Options and capabilities they are pushing that a bit. However I think they are trying to protect each player and give facility to small voices. They have a strong interest in protecting the commercial elevator system as well. There is no way anyone else could handle the logistics of movement on a major scale. Grain companies by their very nature have their own love hate relationship with CWB. They are conditioned as operators to think in terms of useable space. The more separations they need for grades/proteins the more wasted space. If they could get away with it they would put it all in one big silo. (you'll have to trust me here). The product would be useless to processors of course. Now who imposes these forced separations CGC and CWB and soon CFIA maybe etc. Hence' the lack of attraction to say nothing of the perception, that standards change in mid stream.#2-#3 I'm not quite sure what you are asking here maybe clarify a little more if you would. thanks boone

[charliep]

Boone

The reason I am asking this question is to try to imagine where our industry will be in 10 years time. If our industry has a vision of what success looks like, then we have the beggining of a road map to get there.

Rather than relying on regulation and paranoia, western Canada has to change the way we do business. This has to be an industry effort. Being profitable is okay at all stages in the value chain(particularly when a business accepts risk) as long as value in the system is created as measured by higher prices and a better job of meeting customer needs.

[TOM4CWB]

Boone;

Every request made by the CWB has a cost, a risk inherent in the action... and possibly a reward if it is a reasonable action that is requested.

Regulation by the CGC and CWB many times is not based on the risk/cost/reward system ..., but a regulation that may or may not create a productive enhancement to my farm's bottom line.

KVD/Varietial segregation is a very good example.

A end user has a specified product that is required... with falling number, gluten strength, ash, flour colour, protein... and whatever other specs are needed for the flour being produced.

THe DNA of a certain variety does not assure any of these specs... it may give a general probability... but environmental conditions can easily override and down grade any variety.

Conversely... a US unregistered variety can and does meet the specs of many millers... under certain Canadian weather conditions... US varieties can easily meet CWRS standards.

Now... the US can easily meet Japanese quality specs... just as does Canada... but at what cost? What efficiencies do we lose... and what are these costs?

I understand a falling number is being done on most primary elevator shipments of CWRS wheat... because of sprouting... and because a visual grading system cannot identify falling numbers effecively in many cases!

ALESEN fusarium resistant wheat is tossed out because of low falling numbers in the #3 grade in tests this year... and "poor" flour colour... which can easily be identified and downgraded by checking milling specs.

Instead we say... Alesen in no good... and is not to be grown in Canada... even though the #1 and #2 Alesen was just fine on the quality spec. for CWRS.

This is a simple example of how regulation has become more important than the end quality product... and at the expense of the increased infections of fusarium... and downgrading of overall CWRS quality because of fusarium...

This offends me. Quality and end use satisfaction is where we must go... not to regulation for the sake of regulation!

[boone]

Tom4cwb, The system is timid for many reasons, quite often for the same ideas that you and I feel so negative about GMO wheat. You understand Starlink mess as well as anybody extrapolate that debacle to our industry here. You may know that CPS wheat was held off market for ten extra years, I believe it was a mistake. However the people that would have to enforce enduse certificates with growers, has never been looked upon as very militant. Under this new system they will have to be. When someone puts their name on a declaration, the damages should start at Five-thousand for growers and Fifty-thousand for elevators and make it double with each incident. Then the producers that want to grow Alsen or Grandin or Pioneer, could go ahead and do the right thing for their farms. But if they get greedy and try to blend it into CWHRS class they will pay handsomely.inho

[henbent]

charlie, TOM4CWB, I am beginning to think that neither of you guys has ever had greasy hands or dirt under your nails. All the this mumbo jumbo of information that you are spewing forth makes me think that you are hooked up to a giant propoganda machine, called the AB Gov't. Gentleman farmers sit around pub tables in Southern AB, where good ole boys have drinks and solve Canada's Ag problems, whisper them into Ralph's ear and who knows what will happen next.

[charliep]

I am not involved in the day to day opertations of a farm. I do have a good understanding of commodity markets both as they exist today and a vision of where they are likely to be in ten years time. I use this information within government and in advicing clients. If you want to challenge me, do it on these issues.

[TOM4CWB]

Henbent;

Intimidation tactics you attempt to use... will not stop planet earth from turning once every 24 hours... nor will they stop the facts and truth from being what they are.

I went to the CWB Accountability meeting in Sedgewick yesterday... and found Chairman Ritters response to my CWB sales accountability questions... answered in the same manner you use...

Avoid answering the question at any cost... call the person names... and intimidate this person so they sit down and shut up.

If this will improve CWB marketing performance... I will be a very surprised Alberta grain farmer...

By the way I did sell the CWB CWRS and CPS this year... and it was hard work and dirty fingernails that got this grain to market...

Insult me if it pleases you, calling me names will not cause any improvements down at the CWB...

Stealing my grain may hurt my bank account... but calling me names will never cover up CWB offences against the farmers the CWB is supposedly created to serve.

[henbent]

TOM4CWB, You have reached a new low, accusing Chairman Ritter, of name calling and unprofessional conduct. Unbelievable, you guys will try anything! I bet you would even try to become a CWB farmer director and dismantle the board from within. But I doubt you could the needed support to be elected.

[henbent]

charliep, So you are an AB Gov't employee, Dept of Ag rep, that managed to keep your position despite the cuts? It is nice to know that you are towing the Gov't line on this issue and really don't have anything to lose, one way or the other. I guess that there are those who would think that you are impartial? But knowing that AB is intent on trashing the CWB I would suggest that you may have an agenda and want to keep your job! It's easy to play what if, when your money isn't at stake though, or do you actually have money tied up personally in the commodities market, I wonder? Look, no offense intended, but I want to make a point.

[TOM4CWB]

Henbent...

I was not the only farmer at this meeting that felt this way... and it is sad that I had to report that the CWB "Accountability" meeting did not account for any CWB sales performance information, risk management mitigation info, Producer Pricing Option info on unacceptable CWB practices... when it was specifically asked for... there was the typical "Can't comment" respose... and the "You get offended at anything" when the CWB election co-ordinator sent my families CWB ballots out so they arrived the day AFTER the postmark was to be on them... Dec. 6th, 2002.

The illegal voting of many people that do not produce grain in the district they voted in...

is laughed off...

it is a funny joke to Chairman Ritter... and most CWB Directors, the numerous multiple ballots that were cast by a single producer... that the CWB Act says can only vote once... again is chuckled at...

In some countries democracy is as important as life itself... at the CWB it is a tool to educate me that I am a idiot... and shouldn't be offended when my family and myself are refused their democratic right to vote...

I am to be insulted, then sit down and shut up... that is the solution for your Chairman Ritter!

It was good that many of your CWB loving freinds... that saw exactly what happened... if their hearts are not too hard... to care... they too would have had concern about how exactly things were handled...

[wilagro]

Tom...They (the CWB reps) must regard you as 'that damned troublemaker' at it again. Perhaps your 'sourg****s attitude' after not getting elected to the board, influences their comeback to your questions. A little quiet diplomacy combined with a bit of tact might get you farther ahead in your dealings with the CWB.

Just a thought...

[TOM4CWB]

Wilagro;

After, using a "little quiet diplomacy combined with a bit of tact", the CWB and CWB's election co-ordinators response was "SUE US"

After speaking quietly and calmly, on at least 2 occasions with Chairman Ritter, his response when he knows these problems occured... is to tell everyone that the election process is working just fine, without any problems.

I have encountered other farmers who had the same problem with the 2002 election process... and the same result, no ballot recieved in time for the voting deadline.

The CWB knows well that these illegal issues exist... they choose to do nothing... and tell us everything is just fine!

Pete at MNP had no response, no excuse, and the CWB a few weeks ago is still telling us that we should be registered in the district our elevator is in that we fill out our permit book... NOT THE DISTRICT THAT OUR GRAIN IS PRODUCED IN!

IS THERE ANY WONDER WHY OBERG, DISTRICT 5's DIRECTOR, HAD AN ACCOUNTABILITY MEETING IN DISTRICT 4?

WILL WE EVER KNOW IF HE WAS EVEN LEGALLY ELECTED BY DISTRICT 5 FARMERS?