Free wheat area of Canada

[eatmorewheat]

Free wheat area of Canada
80.4%
- Newfoundland
- Nova Scotia
- New Brunswick
- Prince Edward Island
- Quebec
- Ontario
- Yukon
- Northwest Territories
- Nunavut
- British Columbia

Expropriation of wheat area in Canada
19.6%
- Manitoba
- Saskatchewan
- Alberta

Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.

Canadian charter of rights and freedoms

Is the Canadian Wheat Board "in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice?"

Free wheat in the ROC [rest of Canada]

[wilagro]

How much wheat is grown in Nunavut???

[henbent]

wilagro, Well statistically, if Nunavut grew 1 plant this year, their production and export potential would rise by 100%. This might make them a player on the world scene and with potential to keep doubling their output in future the sky is the limit, weird eh!!

[TOM4CWB]

Eatmorewheat;

According to our constitutional powers as set out in the BNA Act... and ruled by the Supreme Court of Canada... the CWB Act IS legal if the Province affected passes concurring legislation enabling the CWB Act to be fully functional in that provincial Jusisdiction...

Ontario Wheat Board Legislation actually is concurring legislation with the CWB Act... and works in conjunction with the CWB Act...

THis is why Alberta has the constitutional right to change how the CWB operates the monopoly in Alberta.

Trade an Commerce legislation never had the power to outright prohibit trade... as the CWB is claiming it's authority to enforce the monopoly is derived from.

I believe this is the principal reason the Cdn. Justice Dept is using the Customs Dept. to enforce the CWB Act... rather than using the CWB Act to punish those who have allegidly broken the CWB Act itself.

THis is the biggest smoke and mirror show in Canadian Legal History... led by the government of Canada!

Who would have thought!

[eatmorewheat]

Well if Nunavut grew one 10' x 10' patch of wheat at least it would be free. Or perhaps the DA area could be expanded to maximize Inuit wheat producer returns too.

I'm glad you got the message wilagro.

[boone]

Greetings 1& all. You know you guys keep talking about freedom to Dual market. You have got to admit here that as a group we have a terrible record of extracting the value of Canola, we are selling when we should be holding and vice versa, if I was a multinational, I would start buying the champagne, they will certainly be able to afford it. I sense before the market was done with too many sellers they would have some of you gents being squeezed like a supplier to WAL-MART. Where you just about pay them to take it and promise that you will take on all risk of future supply. But that will we for you to learn the hard way. It will be a time for your redemtion or demise. Now as devils advocate, why don't we try Canola under a dual market and see how this thing shapes up. If it is done with wheat, HRS Durum we can't get the Genie back in the WTO and NAFTA bottle, if it was a stupid move. Let's see some of you guys show a little benevolent courage, and push this idea. Anybody with any guts on the pro Dual Market side. If I see the benefits to us as a group, I'll be right beside you "like minded"-border rushing, windmill tilting, bra burning; oops, wrong battle. Well you know how you came across, same style event, Don't get upset get creative and let's work on this together. Set a deadline of five years for a fair assesment and live with the incongruity, good or bad.

[charliep]

Boone

Just wondering come you come to the conclusion canola price is undervalued relative to other oilseeds/vegoils? It has to be based on market information. Couldn't you use that same information in an open wheat market?

Just to keep terminology straight, there is no such thing as a dual market. There is the alternative of an open market with a CWB pooled price as one of the choices.

[boone]

CharlieP Now I'm not suggesting we are in or out of sync. with oils/bean/palm, at this time. What I am expressing here is even when we have a good premium in our markets there is no trigger that seems to induce profit taking as a group. It is more a reflection of what the coffee shop needs to have, or the fuel/ machinery/fcc/FIST,CFIP,AIDA,NISA,CROP INS. didn't trigger the way the accountant promised. So now we have a focus on marketing ( usually on the downslope) and as SOYROY tells us the JOHN DEERE LOW is one of the unsung realities on the USA side of the border. No more no less, just my H/O. The best result of an open market for wheat as I see it is as a group we may not do any worse than an ill advised sales team (CWB) that over or under commits our total crop!

[charliep]

Boone

Now I understand your point better.

It is interesting to see that the open market and pooled price system are in some sense coming together.

CWB producer pricing options (still room for discussion and improvement) are moving in the direction of providing more alternatives to manage price risk and improve cash flow.

Your comments on canola are also valid in terms of discipline - I don't know how many farmers I am talking to these days who wouldn't sell for $10/bu are now panicking/pulling the trigger at less than $8. My one success in life would be to get farmers to quit trying to sell their whole crop at once at the high price but rather pick out key times during the year when there are pricing opportunities and selling some. The gage of success is not picking the highest price but range being consistently profitable, getting bills paid on time and having an average price in the top third of prices most years (not every year). The key in this success is discipline.

An interesting question is why (when given a choice) farmers will almost always sell in the open market versus a pooled price. I seen pooled prices attempted with canola and some pulses (beans are an exception) offered by grain companies but they have never had large signups.

[TOM4CWB]

Charlie;

Pooled prices work well when I as a manager actually trust the marketer doing my pooling... because I entered the pool voluntarily and agreed to the terms of the pool.

Pools can certainly narrow the basis... if the marketer is working carefully for the farmer in the pool.

The Voluntary part of pooling... with competition as the check and balance (I can and will go to another marketer if not treated fairly) pools have worked very well on our farm for non-CWB Ag products!

THIS is why I am so disappointed that the CWB has done so much less than the Ontario Wheat Board... when the CWB should be capable of offering better options than Ontario because of the larger size and capibility to risk manage!

As the saying goes... lead, follow,,, or please.... get out... of our way.

[TOM4CWB]

Boone: I don't think the CWB would need a vote from us dumb farmers to allow them to sell canola to the world in a marketing choice environment. I challenge them to do it now. I want the choice to pool my canola sales with the CWB or go to the open market. There's nothing in law that says they can't market canola.

Boone with all of your hard to read rambling, you have finally come up with a test market of sorts. Lets go for it.

[charliep]

Tom4cwb

You indicate the CWB can/does lower basis. Just looking for further explanation.

Basis is the relationship between two prices (normally futures and a cash price). It can only be done on an individual sales basis by knowing actual values for each CWB sales. This information is not available to anyone outside the CWB.

There are lots of other factors that are included in CWB pooled prices that are never asked about.

1) Spreads between classes, grades and proteins as assigned by the CWB.

2) Freight adjustment factor.

3) Timing of sales.

4) CWB decisions to hold back on sales to protect prices. Case in point this year is durum in southern Alberta.

[TOM4CWB]

Charlie;

With CWB pooling, it is VERY hard to track the basis... as the deemed spreads between the grades fog up all transparent market signals from getting back to my farm.

The pool basis I wrote about was on the non-CWB pools we have participated in.

The CWB explanation of setting the spreads and averaging the prices does not reflect true market conditions... IMHO and from what I have seen by disecting CWB prices through PPO indicators.

THe CWB has argued strongly that at no point... for instance, that a 3CWRS should ever be worth more than a 2CWRS because of a sales timing issue... I disagree.

There are many different factors besides timing like protein premium spread changes... narrowing of the basis, strong demand with willing "designated area" suppliers who fill that demand in one grade but not another..., which should determine a transparent price that is based on market reality rather than formula pricing as is the case with the CWB today.

Feed wheat and feed barley are perfect examples of CWB inability to respond to true market signals... for the CWB to maintain not only the formula pricing... but also the CWB monopoly itself... through the pool system.

I need the opportunity to contract with, and supply a end user, without the CWB pool getting in the middle of our contract.

Obviously the CWB pooling system is a means to an end... yet the CWB has made the pool so important that it has become a hinderance to our value added industries and farms equally.

THe CWB is working internally on pool pricing systems... because we have proven that timing on when grain is priced... can be as important... or many times more important... than selling when the "basis" is "narrow".

THe CWB pooling operations that were carried out 10 years ago are so different (from what I have been told) from what happened in pool sales for the last 2 years for instance... that we are really not dealing with a year long pooled sales program any more.

I brought this up at the CWB accountability meeting in Stettler last year... and was told in essence that the CWB were superstar marketers... and to just trust their decisions.


What is so sick... is that if the CWB were getting such a good basis... which may well have been possible...

The CWB has failed to pass this good basis on through the PPO options... and simply extort money (a $40 added basis) from those who were concerned about CWB skill on the timing issue... so that the Pool remains the only viable tool to sell through the CWB!

I hope this will change soon Charlie... and "Marketing Choice" in Alberta is bringing real pressure on the CWB to become accountable in these areas... my hat is off to your hard work in bringing these issues forward and exposing CWB marketing weaknesses!

[Everest]

It seems to me that strong CWB monopoly supporters are usually very fond of vilifying grain companies, railways, suppliers, and anyone else that farmers do business with, for being hard nosed, without the benefit of farmers upper most in their minds. The CWB, in its defense of itself and the single desk system, is fond of saying that the benefits they allegedly bring to farmers would transfer to the multinational grain companie if we had an open market for wheat and barley.

Can one of you tell me then, why the majority of millers and maltsters so love the CWB system, and don't want an open market? Most of them are multinationals. All of them are driven by shareholder greed. Shouldn't they be held to the same account as railways, elevator companies, and seed companies, etc.?

Could the fact the US wheat producers in North Dakota and Montana consistently net on an annual basis 50 cents to a Dollar per bushel Cdn more than Canadian farmers (USDA and CWB data…..not mine) color the position of these buyers? If the CWB, as it says “extracts a premium” from the marketplace as a result of the single desk, of what interest would it be for the shareholders and management of milling and malting companies to want to preserve the CWB’s single desk system?

Isn’t the answer to ‘follow the money’?

[Everest]

Henbent, Boone and Wilgro: I hope you are still around and have read the last three post on this thread by Charliep. Tom4cwb and Everest. There is a lot of answers and truths in what they say about marketing with the CWB.

I think it is time that the CWB was given the truth test(marketing choice).