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    #11
    As an exporting country sometimes our customers can control us.And if that is what it takes to make a deal so be it.Like anything learn to pick your fights.

    Comment


      #12
      Most of the ten last years of relative prosperity in the grain industry were largely the result of ethanol and bio-diesel subsidies and incentives in the good old USA which in effect were also subsidies to farmers there and here. Farmers essentially benefited from state intervention in the grain and energy markets. Farmers benefited from increased prices that drove up the cost of food for everyone. It's funny how otherwise free market supporting farmers think subsidies to famers are okay.

      Comment


        #13
        The U.S. ended direct subsidies to ethanol in 2011. That certainly doesn't make the subsidies prior to that any better. I think Government certainly pick and choose industries they wish to support and expand. It is no different than the push to support green energy, something you support Chuck2. When a government chooses to subsidize a industry we all pay one way or another. I think the increased demand for corn undoubtably created a better market for grains. Will governments investment in green energy create the same economic returns?

        Comment


          #14
          chuckchuck.

          There is something quoted about throwing stones.

          Is your kettle not a little black?

          Comment


            #15
            http://www.ourenergypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/The-Effect-oftheUS-Ethanol-Mandate-on-Corn-Prices-.pdf


            The
            Effect
            of
            the
            US
            Ethanol
            Mandate
            on
            Corn
            Prices
            Colin
            Carter
            Department
            of
            Agricultural
            and
            Resource
            Economics
            UC
            Davis
            Ph:
            530
            ‐
            752
            ‐
            6054
            Email:
            cacarter@ucdavis.edu
            Gordon
            Rausser
            Department
            of
            Agricultural
            and
            Resource
            Economics
            UC
            Berkeley
            Ph:
            510
            ‐
            643
            ‐
            9942
            Email:
            rausser@berkeley.edu
            Aaron
            Smith
            *
            Department
            of
            Agricultural
            and
            Resource
            Economics
            UC
            Davis
            Ph:
            530
            ‐
            752
            ‐
            2138
            Email:
            adsmith@ucdavis.edu

            Comment


              #16
              The Renewable Fuel Standard still requires fuel in the US to contain bio-fuels. It is difficult to assess the impact on prices but the demand for corn and oil seeds is much higher because of the RFS. Indirectly this is still a subsidy to farmers as it artificially increases demand for crops. Prior to 2011 the indirect subsidy to farmers amounted to billions. Check out the opinion bellow.

              Examining the Renewable Fuel Standard
              The House of Representatives Committee
              on
              Oversight and Government Reform
              Subcommittee
              on the Interior and the Subcommittee on
              Healthcare, Bene
              fits, and Administrative Rules
              March 16, 2016
              Nicolas Loris
              Herbert & Joyce Morgan Fellow
              The Heritage Foundation
              2
              My name is Nick Loris. I am the Herbert & Joyce Morgan Fellow at The Heritage Foundation. The views
              I express in this testimony are my own,
              and should not be construed as representing any official position
              of The Heritage Foundation.
              I want to thank the members of the
              Committee of
              Oversight and Government Reform Subcommittee
              s
              on the Interior and
              on Healthcare, Benefits, and Administrative Rul
              es
              for this opportunity to
              address the Renewable Fuel Standard.
              The federal government provides a wide range of
              subsidies
              to
              boost the production and
              consumption
              of biofuels.
              Over several decades
              , Congress
              has
              enacted special tax breaks, direct
              grants, gov
              ernment
              -
              backed loans and loan guarantees
              to
              generate a larger
              biofuel and biodiesel
              market
              .
              1
              The main
              component
              of
              the
              U.S.
              ’s
              biofuel policy is the Renewable Fuel Standard
              (RFS), created in 2005 through the Energy Policy Act of 2005, and expanded in the Energy
              Independence and Security Act of 2007, mandating billions of gallons of ethanol be blended into
              gasoline each year, with
              a peak of 36 billion gallons in 2022. After 2022,
              the
              E
              nvironmental
              P
              rotection
              A
              gency (EPA)
              has discretion to set the limit
              (within certain limitations)
              .
              2
              To
              rationalize
              the RFS
              , p
              olicymakers
              promised reduced dependence on foreign oil, a new source
              of cl
              eaner energy to lower gas prices,
              a stronger economy
              ,
              and an improved environment.
              None
              of this has materialized.
              Instead, the quota caters to special interest
              group
              s and has adverse
              effects on the economy and the environment. Subsidizing biofuel production benefits a select
              few and spreads the costs amongst the rest of American families and businesses.
              Even within
              the
              agricultural community, biofuel handouts reward t
              hose connected to
              the policy and adversely
              affect
              large parts of rural America.
              The problem
              with the RFS is
              not
              the use of biofuels themselves but
              rather a
              policy that mandates
              the
              production and consumption of the fuel
              .
              Having politicians centrally plan
              e
              nergy decisions
              best left
              for the private sector
              distorts markets
              and
              demonstrates
              the high costs and unintended
              consequences of government
              control
              .
              The
              RFS
              distorts
              commodity
              production and prices,
              artificially raises the price of fuel
              and food,
              and has adverse environmental effects. The
              alleged
              climate benefit increasing biofuel use
              is dubious at best.
              Even under the
              assumption
              that
              switching from oil to biofuel would reduce greenhouse gas emissions,
              the impact
              of the switch
              on the earth’s tempe
              rature would be negligible.
              Congress should not
              tinker around the edges with attempts to reform
              the
              RFS. Policymakers
              should recognize
              the mandate
              is a failure and the government has no legitimate place propping
              up one energy source or technology over ano
              ther.
              Congress should eliminate
              the
              RFS
              entirely
              and
              empower
              free enterprise to drive fuel competition and choice.
              The Renewable Fuel Standard
              1
              U.S. Department of Energy,
              Alternative Fuels Data Center
              “Federal Laws and Incentives for Biodiesel,”
              http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/laws/BIOD/US
              (accessed November 13, 2015).
              2
              Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007, 110th Cong., 1st Sess., §202
              ,
              https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/hr6/text
              (accessed January 22, 2016)
              .
              3
              The
              Renewable Fuel Standard
              is o
              ne of the
              most
              egregious
              examples of government meddling in
              the energy economy
              .
              The Energy Policy Act of 2005
              first
              mandated that renewable fuels be
              mixed into America’s gasoline supply,
              primarily using corn
              -
              based ethanol
              .
              T
              he Energy
              Independence and Security Act
              of
              2007
              significantly
              increased the quotas. By 2022, there must
              b
              e 15 bi
              llion gallons
              (
              and
              no more)
              of corn
              -
              based ethanol and
              a
              total of 36
              billion gallons
              of
              biofuels
              blended
              in
              to
              the nation’s fuel supply
              , including soybean
              -
              based biodiesel
              .
              The program
              does not end
              in 2022
              , however, but grants the EPA
              the
              authority
              to
              set
              yearly targets.
              3
              The biofuels mandate
              gives preferential treatment to the production of corn and soybeans
              at the
              expense of other agricultural products
              and artificially eliminates the risk and competition
              necessary
              to drive innovation and economic growth
              .
              The economic and environmental problems
              caused by the R
              FS
              ha
              ve
              resulted in a diverse group opposing the mandate including
              environmental organization
              s
              , world hunger activists, economists, energy companies
              ,
              and many in
              the agricultural community.
              Within the
              agriculture community, the National Chicken Council,
              National Cattlemen’s Beef Association, National Pork Producers Council,
              National Turkey
              Federation, Milk Producers Council,
              to name but a few
              ,
              4
              have called on Congress to repeal
              the
              standard.
              Other p
              rom
              inent groups like
              the
              A
              merican
              P
              etroleum
              Institute
              , N
              ational
              R
              esource
              D
              efense
              C
              ouncil
              , A
              merican
              F
              uel and
              P
              etrochemical
              M
              anufacturers
              , E
              nvironmental
              W
              orking
              G
              roup
              , Oxfam, and the United Nations have decried
              preferential treatment for corn ethanol
              .
              5
              Besides
              the near universal outcry, the policy itself is reaching a breaking point as basic
              assumptions about the future on which it was built, such as national gasoline consumption and
              the
              commercial
              viability of
              advanced
              biofuels, are crumbling. Yet power
              ful biofuel lobbies have
              thus far successfully wooed Congress to withhold action on the RFS
              and its destructive economic
              and environmental effects.
              Free Markets vs. Government Intervention in Energy Policy
              While the exact relationship between energy consu
              mption and gross domestic product (GDP) can
              vary, it is clear that energy is important to a nation’s economic growth
              .
              Studies have shown that
              a causal relationship exists between energy consumption in economic growth; that is, energy
              availability can influ
              ence increases in gross domestic product or that causality moves in both
              directions
              .
              6
              When
              the free market operates, resource extraction and production expands greatly,
              3
              Ibid
              .
              4
              National Pork Producers Council
              et al,
              “Petition for Waiver or Partial Waiver of Applicable Volume of Renewable
              Fuel,” l
              etter to EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson, July 30, 2012,
              http://www.nppc.org/wp
              -
              content/uploads/20120730
              -
              mf
              -
              Final
              -
              RFS
              -
              Waiver
              -
              Petition.pdf
              (accessed October 1, 2
              015).
              5
              Carlton Carroll, “API and AFPM
              T
              ell EPA to
              P
              ut
              C
              onsumers
              F
              irst
              W
              hen
              S
              etting
              E
              thanol
              M
              andates,”
              American
              Petroleum Institute
              July 27, 2015,
              http://www.api.org/news
              -
              and
              -
              media/news/newsitems/2015/july
              -
              2015/api
              -
              and
              -
              afpm
              -
              tell
              -
              epa
              -
              to
              -
              put
              -
              consumers
              -
              first
              -
              when
              -
              setting
              -
              ethanol
              -
              mandates
              (accessed November 12, 2015) .
              Natural
              Resources Defense Council, “Let the VEETC Expire: Save Billions in Tax Dollars Better Spent on Non
              -
              Polluting
              Energy Technologies,” June 2010,
              http://www.nrdc.org/globalwarming/fil
              es/VEETCfs.pdf
              (accessed November 12,
              2015). Sarah Kalloch, “Burning
              D
              own the
              H
              ouse: Corn as
              F
              uel,
              N
              ot
              F
              ood,” Oxfam America, October 4, 2012,
              http://politicsofpoverty.
              oxfamamerica.org/2012/10/corn
              -
              as
              -
              fuel
              -
              not
              -
              food/
              (accessed November 12, 2015).
              Environmental Working Group, “EPA’s Biofuels Mandates are Unworkable,” February 7, 2013,
              http://www.ewg.org/release/epa
              -
              s
              -
              proposed
              -
              biofuels
              -
              mandates
              -
              are
              -
              unworkable
              (accessed November 12, 2015).
              6
              Ross McKitrick and Elmira Aliakbari,
              “
              Energy Abundance and Economic Growth: International and Canadian
              Evidence,
              ”
              Fraser Institute, May
              15,
              2014,
              4
              innovative technologies generate promising opportunities, and job creation and the
              economy
              grow robustly.
              Over the years, federal policies have blocked access to opportunities, unnecessarily delayed
              projects, mandated expensive energy production, restricted choice, and given handouts to
              politically connected energy technologies. Politici
              ans tout these programs as means to usher in
              new technologies that will provide jobs and stimulate the economy. The reality, however, is that
              these policies play favorites by allocating special benefits to the well
              -
              connected, rather than
              creating a playing
              field that provides
              opportunity for all to compete. The RFS is certainly an
              example of such favoritism.
              Perhaps
              the
              most perverse
              part of
              these subsidies
              is that
              significantly obstruct the long
              -
              term
              success and viability of the technologies and energy sou
              rces they intend to promote. Instead of
              relying on a process that rewards competition, taxpayer subsidies prevent a company from truly
              understanding the price point at which the technology will be economically viable. When the
              government plays favorites, i
              t traps valuable resources in unproductive places and allocates labor
              and capital away from other investments.
              If biofuels are to succeed as a competitive transportation fuel, it will not be the result of any
              taxpayer
              -
              funded handout or government
              -
              imposed m
              andate. Whether the industry flourishes or
              fails, that is for private actors, using their own
              investment dollars
              , to determine. This holds true
              not just for biofuels, but for all energy resources and technologies.
              The
              U.S.
              has a robust, diverse
              energy mark
              et that can supply consumers with affordable and reliable energy without the
              taxpayers’ help.
              Evidence indicates that certain biofuels are cost
              -
              competitive with traditional fuels and make a
              useful addition to gasoline without special privileges from Washington.
              Before any subsidies and
              the current biofuels mandates were put in place, ethanol already served as a valuable additive to
              gasoline to oxy
              genate fuel to burn it more cleanly and efficiently.
              7
              The use of biofuels is not new
              and does not originate from any government policy jumpstarting an infant industry; in fact,
              Henry Ford originally planned for the Model T to run off ethanol
              and, i
              n 1897,
              Rudolf Diesel
              showcased a diesel engine running on peanut oil.
              8
              In the year before the federal government mandated the production of ethanol, the
              U.S.
              produced
              over 81 million barrels of ethanol.
              9
              A recent report by the University of Tennessee Institute o
              f
              Agriculture estimates that in a market with no RFS and no ethanol tax credit, demand for corn
              ht
              tps://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/energy
              -
              abundance
              -
              and
              -
              economic
              -
              growth.pdf
              (accessed November
              13, 2015).
              7
              U.S. Energy Information Administration
              ,
              “
              Petroleum & Other Liquids: Ethanol Oxygenate,” September 30, 2015,
              http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_oxy_dc_nus_mbbl_a.htm
              (accessed October 1, 2015). U.S. Geological
              Survey, “Fuel Oxygenates,” August 4, 2015,
              http://toxics.usgs.gov/definitions/fuel_oxygenates.html
              (accessed
              November 13, 2015).
              8
              “Biofuel Facts,” Biofuel.org.uk,
              http://biofuel.org.uk/biofuel
              -
              facts.html
              (accessed November 13, 2015
              ).
              9
              U.S. Energy Information Administration, “Petroleum & Other Liquids: Ethanol Oxygenate
              .
              15
              conversion plants
              to meet largescale demand have prevented non
              -
              food
              -
              sourced ethanol from
              being an economically viable option.
              The EPA
              , which administers the RFS,
              has reduce
              d
              Congress’ original annual quotas for
              cellulosic ethanol every year
              ,
              as
              required by the mandate
              ,
              bec
              ause not enough was available on
              the market. EPA adjusted Congress’ first cellulosic target from 100 million gallons in 2010 to
              just 6.5 million. However, even the adjusted mandate was a stretch compared with reality; in
              fact, zero gallons were produced th
              at year and the following
              year
              .
              53
              Consequently, refiners had to pay millions of dollars in waiver credits or surcharges for failure to
              comply with the EPA’s minimum volume requirements. Refiners necessarily passed those costs
              on to the consumer. In January
              2013, the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that EPA “let its
              aspirations for a self
              -
              fulfilling prophecy divert it from a neutral methodology” and that the target
              was an “unreasonable exercise of agency discretion.”
              54
              It vacated the cellulosic ethanol
              req
              uirement required by the RFS
              for the year 2012
              . The EPA has since proposed cellulosic
              mandates for 2014
              -
              2016 that are equally as out of touch with market realities.
              Conclusion
              Longtime proponents of the ethanol mandate have since recognized the problems c
              orn
              -
              based
              ethanol. In fact, several Members of Congress have introduced legislation to repeal only the corn
              requirement of the Renewable Fuel Standard.
              55
              Removing corn’s share of the requirement,
              perhaps the most economically viable part of the mandate
              ,
              is
              problematic for several reasons.
              Biodiesel generated from soybeans presents the same food
              -
              for
              -
              fuel problem
              that
              the corn ethanol
              mandate does.
              Advanced biofuels from non
              -
              food based sources are the least economically
              competitive and demonstrate just how inc
              ompetent the federal government is at centrally
              planning what the market can bear.
              Furthermore, each part of the Renewable Fuel Standard and
              the federal government’s promotion of biofuels create unintended environmental concerns.
              Congress should
              r
              epeal
              the ethanol mandate in its entirety
              and allow consumers a choice at the
              pump
              .
              Biofuels have existed long before the Renewable Fuel Standard and if economically
              competitive, will remain long after it.
              Removing the mandate will spur a healthier market that
              p
              romotes risk taking and entrepreneurial activity rather than government dependence for near
              -
              term survival through favorable policies and tax treatment.
              Importantly, policymakers should not
              just repeal the corn
              -
              based part of the ethanol mandate, leaving the
              least competitive part, the
              cellulosic requirement.
              Furthermore, Congress should u
              se the repeal of the mandate as momentum for greater reform in
              the energy sector that further levels the playing field for all energy companies and technologies.
              53
              U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, “Fuels Registration, Reporting, and Compliance Help,” September 28,
              2015,
              http://www.epa.gov/otaq/fuels/rfsdata/2010emts.htm
              (accessed November 13, 2015).
              54
              U.S.
              Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit,
              American Petroleum Institute vs. Environmental
              Protection Agency
              , January 25, 2013,
              http://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/opinions.nsf/A57AB46B228054BD85257AFE00556B45/$file/12
              -
              1139
              -
              1417101.pdf
              55
              Press release, “Toomey, Feinstein Introduce Bill to Repeal Ethanol Mandate,” February 2
              6, 2015,
              http://www.toomey.senate.gov/?p=news&id=1496
              (accessed October 2, 2015).
              16
              Congress s
              hould remove preferential treatment for all transportation fuels and technologies.
              America needs policies that open access to markets, eliminate preferential treatment for all
              energy sources, and reduce the regulatory burden that chokes investment and inno
              vation.
              The Heritage Fo
              undation is the most broadly supported think tank in the United States. During
              2014, it had hundreds of thousands of individual, foundation, and corporate supporters
              representing every state in the U.S. Its 2014 income came from the following sources:
              Indi
              viduals 75%
              Foundations 12%
              Corporations 3%
              Program revenue and other income 10%
              The top five corporate givers provided The Heritage Foundation with 2% of its 2014 income.
              The Heritage Foundation’s books are audited annually by the national accounting firm
              of RSM
              US, LLP.
              Members of The Heritage Foundation staff testify as individuals discussing their own
              independent research. The views expressed are their own and do not reflect an institutional
              position for The Heritage Foundation or its board of trustees.
              Nicolas (Nick) Loris, an economist, focuses on energy, environmental and regulatory issues as the
              Herbert and Joyce Morgan fellow at The Heritage Foundation.
              A senior policy analyst in Heritage's Roe Institute for Economic Polic
              y Studies, Loris researches and
              writes about energy supplies, energy prices and other economic effects of environmental policies and
              regulations, including climate change legislation, energy efficiency mandates and energy subsidies. He
              covers coal, oil, na
              tural gas, nuclear gas and renewable energy policy and articulates the benefits of free
              market environmentalism.
              Loris has testified before House and Senate committees. He has been published and quoted in
              publications such as The Wall Street Journal and T
              he New York Times. His radio and television
              appearances include CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC and National Public Radio. He is a prolific
              contributor to the energy and environment section of The Daily Signal.
              Loris, a senior policy analyst since 2013, was named Morgan fellow the year before. The fellowship was
              endowed by retired real estate developer Herbert Morgan and his late wife, Joyce, of Arlington, Va.,
              longtime proponents of free enterprise and limited g
              overnment.
              Before joining Heritage in 2007, Loris was an associate at the Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation,
              immersing himself for a year in a market
              -
              based management program.
              He received his master's degree in economics from George Mason University
              in Fairfax, Va. He holds a
              bachelor's degree in economics, finance and political science from Albright College in Reading, Pa.
              Loris, who was born and grew up in Quakertown, Pa., currently resides Washington, D.C.

              Comment


                #17
                Chuck2 why can't you just answer the question yourself?

                Comment


                  #18
                  Chuck2, interesting quote from above"Having politicians centrally plan energy decisions best left to the private sector distorts markets and demonstrates the high costs and unintended consequences of government control". This is a very important point, even though in this article it is targeted at biofuels, you could very easily substitute electricity. Ontario's electricity debacle is a prime example of the truth of this quote being applied. As I said above whenever government involves itself in directing business success we pay one way or another. Have a good day:-)

                  Comment


                    #19
                    The renewable fuel standard creates an artificial market for corn and oil seeds that benefits farmers.

                    Bio-fuel is pitched as environmentally friendly with reduced emissions which is questionable.

                    Wind energy is competitive with natural gas for producing electricity without subsidies. Many renewable energy sources will eventually be cheaper and a better investment. Hydro already is. Saskatchewan and Alberta are both investing in green energy. Why don't you ask Sask Power and Brad Wall why?

                    Many industries get incentives, and subsidies including agriculture.

                    Why do farmers think they are so different considering they get subsidies as well?

                    Comment


                      #20
                      Farmers For Action sounds like some of our own left wing action groups, especially part about anti-corporate profit agenda.
                      Our civilization is based on trade and specialization in what we each do.
                      Doubt we are going back to primative life style unless forced to.

                      Comment

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