Letter to stop the sale of GM alfalfa seed in Canada

[oneoff]

"Wild oats, green foxtail, wild mustard and many other weed seeds generally stay close to their origin and are not likely to be spread by organic farmers to non organic farms."

So you think so. Same should apply to kochia, alfalfa of all kinds and where ever wild animals and birds eat and and move about; and whatever human beings produce and transport. The truth is that bringing seeds and forages in from Alberta(or wherever) brings in their local weed problems... sure as shit.

And there are plenty of weeds already endemic and well established (but not with the same species and relative concentrations throughout the West.

And making it quite plain; that applies to every conventional farming operation and every organic one too.

And as for organic producers worrying about herbicide resistance

"Yes and there are some pretty serious uncontrollable weeds in non-organic fields due to herbicide resistance which is a growing problem all across North America including right on local farms on the prairies. Just ask weed scientists. It is well documented."


When weeds get uncontrollable (by whatever definition the affected farmer may use) just remember that the full arsenel and all the borrowed experience of every organic producer (and everyone's forefathers before 2,4-D powder was brought to SE Sask by forward thinking members of certain Agricultural Societies that I could name.) can be quickly brought out as recommendations if need be.

I'm absolutely sure that those members could see the benefit of minute amounts of chemicals in the control of rampant weeds.

And ponder this quote


"Herbicide tolerant weeds will be a bigger issue and have greater economic impact on crop production because the majority of farms use herbicides on the majority of acres. If that system fails then we are in big trouble. "

Why would this be a big problem. You mean organic techniques could't pick up the shortfall quickly enough. PROBABLY RIGHT. PROBABLY SHOCKING. GOOD FOR THOSE READY FOTHE OPPORTUNITY. BUT PROBABLY BIG TROUBLE as you insinuate. You think farmers couldn't learn again to drive tractors pulling cultivators. You think not many are capable of growing legumes and working organic matter into the soil. You think that comes without trouble in itself; and affects of in effect producing a crop ever two years or so. And there is such a thing as mining soils and alfalfa is a temporary boost to nutient availability because of a deep root system compared to most common prairie crops. That should be taken into account if anyone is thinking of the future beyond a couple decades or so.


But here's the best one that hopefully will engage your brain to weigh what those herbicide tolerant weeds really mean to organic producers.


FIRST....unless there is a conspiracy that created GMO tolerant kochia, foxtail, giant ragweed etc. etc. then those plants probably only got their resistance through natural selection.

You know....the 6 or so magic bullet applications of a new chemical before a few glyphosate (insert any other chemical except maybe some broad leaf 2,4-D products and Buctril M Types) tolerant ones start showing up without any apparent control evidenced after a spray application.

Organic farmers have nothing to additionally fear from these "glyphosate etc" resistant weed seeds that will die equally surely by any rod weeder, cultivator or tillage tool. Quit worrying about herbicide ineffectiveness. Farmers can change if the chemical dependence fails. And the shift in farming practice may very well mean famines and shortages for growing numbers of mouths that may just know how to take what they can from those who can't produce what they need.

If that happens...That one should lie at the feet of those who demanded the changes and spead the misinformation among those who have no idea how the quantity or production method came about. And that goes beyond "no hormones added" and animal cruelty and other popuar causes of the day

The not yet established noxious and prohibitive noxious weeds are a serious matter to everyone who finds themselves
with an additional difficult weed problem....and that deserves the full arsenel of weapons available to control and limit the infestation.

With only clipping the tops off; does anyone really think they can look in the mirror and congratulate themselves on being an adequate land steward or neighbor.

And would those persons also deny a neighbor a buffer zone ( of glyphosate resistant alfalfa etc)that might help contain a disaster on neighboring quarters sections. Those situations do exist, and in some cases it almost appears that it is viewed a deserveable punishment.

There will always be weeds...a variety of them...but it isn't natures way to have everyone of those species everywhere..... and finally it is folly to not allow attempting control at the earliest stages....using every means that is available..

[hobbyfrmr]

And there you have it folks....In the mean time and in between time... Another edition of Stampede Wrestling..

Im not sure why that jumped into my head.
All good points stated.
Judging from some posts I am starting to wonder if my neighbors may want to lynch me! Im going to send my helper to coffee row tomorrow morning.

[oneoff]

With the level of intolerance and indifference shown amongst farmers it jumps to my head that the situaution compares to adhering to the gospels of organized religion over the ages.

Now there is a gospel of supposed environmental concern; health fanaticism; the gospel of personal interests even at the expense of society and running around the globe to meet neighbors that people would never cross the street to see for a simple visit at home.

Certainly no invovelment in democratic decision making ....except deliberately choosing those who are likely to do best for you....even if it is obviously at the expense of others.


And only the odd person says there were some good points....but no one dares say what those points are.....or very few would chance add to the bebate for fear of being lynched by neighbors.

And thats a good analysis....because at the minimum there are many who would suggest behind your back that is exactly what should happen.

[oneoff]

Ask any grass seed grower what inseperable seeds mean to a reputable seed business.

Think about the noxious weed seeds that are the same size as a tint alfalfa seed.

If you don't have those night flowering catchfly seeds on your property or white cockle or leafy spurge or scentless chamomile then just remember that when they get introduced through deliberate and inconsiderate cheapness or whatever grossly inconsiderate driving force then you will understand a bit about stewardship and accountability protecting food growing assets for consumers and farming industry.

On the other hand if you have a lucrative outlet for any weed seed production; if organic farming is admittedly currently small scale and providing a tiny fraction of food supplies;

then someone tell me what the conclusion is to be swallowing the supposed solution to "organic" instantly being an alternative to all the supposed farming mistakes made since advent of 2,4-D powders about 1948.

And just for information...the local Agicultural Society was successful in lining up about 1200 pounds of that weed control powder for distribution back in those days.

And the rest is history????


Must have been an identified need. Now was that a mistake? I'm sure that younger people would quickly agree. I'd like to know how the chuck types weigh in etc.''''but then again they weren't yet born and are only interested in how it benefits/impacts a niche markket for high priced fussy eaters. In fact they have never been exposed to history nor critically analysed both sides (and more importantly....the facts)

Trying to soar like an eagle when flying with turkeys could be depressing

[oneoff]

Oh And the answer to the noxious weed effect on registered grass seed growers is that the grass seed growing in the area is destroyed.

[oneoff]

Oh And the answer to the (inseperable) noxious weed effect on registered grass seed growers is that the grass seed growing in the area is destroyed.

Sorry missed out the term describing that which can't be adequately cleaned out

[oneoff]

"Most seed spread occurs because of poorly cleaned seed. Some of that is caused by inadequate on farm and elevator cleaners. "

Perhaps
the above generaliztion overlooks the significant problem of inseperable seeds.

Anyone got one viable solution for removing something practically the same size as an alfafa seed from an uncleaned lot destined for growing alfalfa.

It matters little if you have a $50 hand turned machine or a state of the art million dollar one. You literally should be aiming for a full 100% no miss job. And it can't be done on the scale of Western Canada needs.

[chuckChuck]

Freewheat. Good questions. There isn't much demand for glyphosate tolerant alfalfa in western canada. Most alfalfa here is used in grass mixtures for beef production so it will never be sprayed. Some dairy farmers might want it to maintain pure stands of high quality. Some alfalfa seed growers might want it to serve the US seed market.

The majority of alfalfa seed producers are concerned about losing markets in the EU and elsewhere. Some of the alfalfa hay and pellet exporters are also concerned about losing markets.

Alfalfa is one of the most competitive plants you can grow except in the first year of establishment.

There is lots of potential market risk with its introduction and little upside benefit for 99% of farmers.

Did we learn anything from what happened with flax? Who is going to benefit? GM alfalfa is not really needed and the potential risk of significant market loss is high.

[chuckChuck]

Oneof we know you don't like organic farming. That's fine.

But perhaps you should pay more attention to what is going on in your own fields rather than what your neighbors are doing?

Are you pretty sure all your fields, yards, fencelines, sloughs are completely free of noxious weeds?

Let us know when you achieve your weed free status.

Good luck with that!

[oneoff]

"Alfalfa is one of the most competitive plants you can grow except in the first year of establishment. "

Open your eyes and you will see that this is not true.

and painting me as hating all organic farmers is just not true. If you actually knew me you would know that I don't swallow any kind of bull shit easily.

Some people choose to only entertain that which confirms that which they already know to be true. In your case that seems to be fully true; and I guess its just a case of having very little in common.

[freewheat]

I guess I remain neutral. I hesitate to sign anything that Elizabeth May will respond to. I do get the concerns. Thank you for clarifying them a bit.