Would CWB votes be different if voting was based on tonnes of product sold to the CWB

[Everest]

Hey guys....

Don't forget, there is a BIG difference between OPEC, Canpotex, Law Associations, etc., and the Canadian Wheat Board.

The CWB is compulsory. OPEC, Canpotex and other marketing "associations" are voluntary. Make the CWB voluntary, like OPEC, and all debates and issues of accountability and performance will be moot. The CWB will survive in the real world that the rest of us operate in, by competing for and providing products and services to its clients who find value in what it has to offer.

[henbent]

TOM4CWB, How in the world can you pretend that OPEC and the CWB would be different? Single desk selling that helps maintain a world price. Benchmarking, to the penny, no to the 1/10 of a cent. Look around man, at the gas pumps, the price is the same everywhere. Free traders, that talk the talk, but don't walk the walk, that sums up Alberta. They want to rub shoulders with the big guys, like the USA. Trash medicare and the CWB and the border, we can all become YANKS or be OPEC ARABS!!

[TOM4CWB]

Henbent;

There is no doubt at all about the CWB and OPEC being different.

Everest hit it bang on... the CWB is controled by legislation, command and control principals... communistic theory... with the worst of both worlds of communism and democracy mutated into an absurd instrument of deceit for the purpose of controling the Canadian food supply.

If the Government of Canada needs to control our grain, then fine, buy it at fair market value, store it at the expense of the taxpayer... Then I will gladly turn my grain over to the CWB.

[chaffmeister]

henbent:

OPEC IS quite different than the CWB. As Tom said, the CWB represents about 5% of world wheat trade this year and more like 12% in recent years. OPEC members represent about 80% of all known oil reserves in the world and supply about 40% of the world's output. Quite different when you are assessing market power.

There is no way that the CWB has ever had the same impact on global wheat prices as OPEC has had on global oil prices.

As mentioned earlier, OPEC membership is voluntary - the CWB is not.

Individual members of OPEC are free to sell their oil to whomever and whenever they see fit. Their sales are not pooled with the rest of OPEC.

OPEC is not a single desk seller - it sets production (output) quotas for its members in order to stabilize prices, and as we all know, individual members are known to "break from the ranks" and over-produce when they feel a need.

The CWB's single desk selling does not "help maintain a world price". Remember, the CWB is a price taker.

[Dyno]

An interesting discussion! The trade numbers cited are very much on the low side for world wheat though. The point is, an OPEC-like wheat cartel with membership with the likes of Australia and Canada is worth researching. The new eastern eurpoean minor exporters could surely use some help with international marketing and we would be well advised to come up with ways to work with them becuase we will not compete on a cost of production basis. Ukraine has in excess of 40% of the class 1 soil in the world! Guess how much we have in canada, almost none. They have created their own domestic shortage through inpet marketing which was aided by the big multinationals. I read in agriline they are now re-importing 20,000 MT/month to survive the year! I understand the multinationals made about $50US/MT margin on the 10 million MT they bought at the farmgate in the Ukraine for $60 US and resold for $110 US FOB Black Sea port. Considering Ukraine, Kazikstan and Russia will outproduce and outexport Australia, Argentina and Canada, the US and the EU on wheat on a consistently lower cost basis into the future we better start recognizing real threats to our future in Wsetern Canada. As tom4cwb likes to say "follow the money", in this case follow the least cost producing area in the world. I think the threat from the nations formerly known as "minor exporters" will make the rest of our problems and issues seem rather trivial inside of five years.

[boone]

Dyno;
Guess where our favourite multinationals are gearing up not in Canada or U.S.A. just read a blurb about facility expansion in west side of eastern Europe, as well as northern Brazil "Shock and Awe". ADM opening soy-crushing in China like burger stands. Cargill did say they would throw some money at the new paid executive at WCWG so they still would like to tie up some loose ends here. It's a shame it has become too complex for the unwashed rank and file of that group. Maybe too many leaks.

[charliep]

Dyno

I agree with your thought about the real threat in the next five years. The question is how Canada positions itself to deal with this threat. The fortress mentality (do what we have always done in the past and hope the problem goes away).

An interesting observation is that the CWB uses the multinationals discussed here as accredited agents versus direct business with buyers. Both the multinationals and buyers are able to shop the market. The CWB only represents 15 % of world wheat trade in a good year.

[parsley]

henbent,

At least when Alberta ponies up to the table at OPEC, they'll hopefully answer the questions put to them.

You haven't done that at Agri-ville's table.

Parsley

[TOM4CWB]

Boone and Dyno;

You have become as evasive as Henbent, in recognising that we "Marketing Choice" supporters are not doing this to fill the pockets of the Multi-national grain companies.

At the rate the CWB is going, the co-operative grain handling structure in Western Canada will be destroyed in a matter of a few more years...

Mistrust, greed, and powermongering pride from the CWB is now a major driving force behind our problems. These destructive forces will totally destroy our community based grain handling Market participants... if Chretien's henchmen don't get the royal boot out of power.

Everyone is quick to blame grain handlers for doing exactly what the market told them to do, get efficient, lower costs, provide quick provision of inventory to port position, and take on the huge investment cost nessasary to make all this possible!

Since the Multi-national domestic and US consumers of our wheat and barley value-added Ag industry support marketing decisions of the CWB, while smaller inovators are being bought up and driven out of business...

Dyno, Henbent, and Boone are either intentionally working to help the Multi-national takeover of our Industry;

Or they have been so blinded by the deception/brainwashing... that is the CWB... pounded into our heads daily by the CWB, that DYNO, Henbent, and Boone refuse to look around at reality, and see the light at the other end of the tunnel is a freight train going 90.

Agricore United is the perfect example. If drastic action is not initiated, these folks are headed into exactly the same sick sad box of problems as SWP.

I understood Agricore United lost $20mil in the first quarter... and that probably was the most profitable quarter of the year!

Selling grain to our highest value Markets, with this war slapping us in the face... becomes very difficult.

JAPAN, ENGLAND, and the USA are our best high value markets for our high value grain products... yet we insist on kicking these folks in the face!

My vote is to distance ourselves as far from Ottawa as possible... there is a plague going on down east... and it is not just SCARS. It is based on Liberal corruption... that could not be sustained if Alberta was not sending 9 billion dollars a year to them... to keep them going!

[henbent]

TOM4CWB, So let me get this straight, according to you, what we want in AB, is 60,000 farmers, running back and forth to 6 or so grain companies, marketing our grain. Or for those with computers, deals being made via the internet, (missinformation highway) into international markets. Deposit my cheques in a numbered Swiss bank account and I'll keep farming away here in AB and feeding the world while at the same time making a huge profit. Reality check here guys, IT WON'T WORK, the lowest price will become the norm!! For the record, the Alberta Barley Commission from day one was created to trash the CWB, R & D was a front to the outfit, talk about CORRUPTION. At meetings they tell us about the benefits of barley, bit deal, we know, GO TELL SOMEBODY ELSE FOR A CHANGE don't keep giving me baking hints.

[boone]

CharlieP; I understand the CWB use of accredited exporters, in some countries like South Korea there was one door in and it was through a "Multi" Now Tom4 CWB;If you truly believe the ADM, Cargills,Bunges would not win in a buying show down up against a bunch of under capitalized prairie wheat farmers, I would like to speak to your Econ.101 prof Secondly the only way that grain would not be exposed is if the USDA (cia) statistics branch is disbanded. Not likely. So you have about two pricing supply cyles before they blow your grain the hell out of the water for screwing up their price. You don't seem to fathom that we have no reason to ship any grain off the continent if we could force it south. Now ask yourselves who keeps it from all going south and as LBJ would say "pissing on my rug". Two guesses you've already wasted one. Do you think we would be able to hold the line on price and keep it out. Yeah right like Alberta cattle. WE HAVE NO BOTTOM ON PRICING no big fat farm programs, it has to go. Us guys that can plant a crop out of our chequing account are about to retire so inputs would be due Oct 1st. So grain glut Sept25-Jan 1, then let's kill that SOB's from down east Cash Advance program too. Are you getting that warm feeling in your nose Yet? You know what the result of all these actions would be, as well or better than I do. Throw in some harvest disorderly marketing on top for good measure to drive the price a little lower. Then all you good ol-boys can check with one of your favourite feedlots what day you can deliver and if you could just get a little cash now to keep the fuel man happy. I like surprizes like the next guy, but nothing you have said here would give surprizing results.

[boone]

Henbet; next time your going to post warn me two barrels of this could hurt a guy. Sorry Tom but I'm a pragmatic guy when it comes to weakening our position. And no I'm at the other end of a corporate pecking order.

[TOM4CWB]

Henbent;

Get your head out of the sand!

I contracted $10/bu for my HEAR for 03, and $9.50/bu for 04, no risk to me, all I can grow, through CanAmera.

Canola, barley for DOmestic consumption, Peas, Lentils, Flax, Canary Seed, in fact the majority of the grains we grow in the "designated area" in tonnage....

ARE NOT MARKETED through the CWB at all.

These non-board markets are growing, whilst the CWB shrinks... for one very good reason!

These non-board markets show us the money, not only show it, they pay us.

TALK is extremely cheap for the CWB... the CWB talk is extremely expensive for us... we pay for the brainwashing think alike PR, and then get a dollar a bushel less than what the PR promises!

Give your heads a shake guys!

How on earth could we sell our Canola and flax for over $10/bu in the fall of 02, if the market actually worked as your economic's profs claim it works!

I really think your Profs should enter the real world... instead of being weedy vegetation that needs a good cleaning and tilling up.

IMHO it is Too bad the seeds these Profs have planted have germinated... and are bearing fruit... resulting in weeds and trash... not helpful at all to building profitable communities for us or our Country!

This only goes to prove one thing...

The release of just a little biased and manipulated info... is a VERY dangerous thing!

[henbent]

boone, Sorry about that, but the truth hurts, and sometimes its hard to keep your mouth shut! I'll heed your advice in future however.

[parsley]

Yes, Henbent, get this straight.

Organic farmers are among those making deals on the internet, the mis-information highway as you put it, and are getting their cheques deposited in bank accounts across the world. It's how they built an entire organic industry, from the ground up, silly old farmers, with no consultants to offer a business plan , and no government money to kick it off. No experts and no Wheat Board marketing, thank goodness.

This will be difficult for you to grasp, but organic farmers actually do business with companies around the world, often never meeting. There has been enough of a trusting relationship between the growers and the processors to build an industry! Can you imagine? The growers don't consider their buyers, be it a housewife or General Mills, as "the enemy"; rather they look upon them as an integral part of the food business. There are some flops, of course, but generally speaking, the results speak for themselves.

Is the lowest price the norm? Obviously not, or the farmers wouldn't keep growing, they would switch to conventional growing. It has to be a symbiotic relationship. Is the price good? Organic contracts for brown flax this week are around $26.00/bushel with those horrible, greedy buyers paying the freight and the cleaning charges. Golden flax this week contracts for over $42.00/bushel with the same freight and cleaning deal.

What's the good part about this? If the grower feels he is getting the bottom price, he can refuse to contract, and look for another buyer, now or in the fall. Options.

These aren't baking hints, for you henbent. They are hints in reason and logic. Are you able to understand them?

Parsley