Would CWB votes be different if voting was based on tonnes of product sold to the CWB

[henbent]

Here is some food for thought. The Alberta Gov't, being the free traders that they are, are now considering going to observe as guests, an OPEC meeting. Won't that be good for all. Free the market for the farmers. But join the ultimate single desk club at OPEC. How crazy are these PC guys!!

[TOM4CWB]

Henbent;

OPEC makes much more sense than the CWB.

At least a significant majority of world production is in OPEC... the CWB is less than 5% of world trade in wheat and feed grains this year! If there were an institution like OPEC for grain sales... the justification to continue the CWB monopoly would be significantly increased! OPEC countries share supply info, back each other up, insure that a balance of supply is created... to the benefit of all.

The CWB has no power to do any of these OPEC functions... case in point...the CWB and Ontario Wheat board are even enemies... who don't even share sales info any more!

Alberta has a huge vested interest in OPEC function... and has constitutional rights internationally on non-renewable energy produced in this province.

We have every right to look after our energy resourses... just as that right to be involved in the consultation and international marketing of our wheat and barley... is vested in the Alberta Government.

I am really glad you brought this up!

[boone]

Tom4cwb; I can well understand why Alberta wants to grab hold of it's leavers of destiny, it is like Saudi Arabia. It knows if it doesn't do something about it's "ONE TRICK PONY " status it will never do anything about it when oil is back at $8.00 per barrel. If you look south of the yellowhead highway on the next trip to Jasper you'll see their urgency. They are masters of selfpillage and they see Ag as one area that they can make something sustainable. The question I have for you is this if we respect doctors for having an association that sets minimum fees and services, and lawyers for the same, how is it when professional ag producers do it, the word "MONOPOLY" is bandied about, or if labour wants a voice it's a entrenched "UNION" mentality. If a whole country wants input in it's future and minimum standards of health, education, or industry, it is "DANGEROUS NATIONALISM". They are all just words, but the intent speaks volumes.

[Everest]

Hey guys....

Don't forget, there is a BIG difference between OPEC, Canpotex, Law Associations, etc., and the Canadian Wheat Board.

The CWB is compulsory. OPEC, Canpotex and other marketing "associations" are voluntary. Make the CWB voluntary, like OPEC, and all debates and issues of accountability and performance will be moot. The CWB will survive in the real world that the rest of us operate in, by competing for and providing products and services to its clients who find value in what it has to offer.

[henbent]

TOM4CWB, How in the world can you pretend that OPEC and the CWB would be different? Single desk selling that helps maintain a world price. Benchmarking, to the penny, no to the 1/10 of a cent. Look around man, at the gas pumps, the price is the same everywhere. Free traders, that talk the talk, but don't walk the walk, that sums up Alberta. They want to rub shoulders with the big guys, like the USA. Trash medicare and the CWB and the border, we can all become YANKS or be OPEC ARABS!!

[TOM4CWB]

Henbent;

There is no doubt at all about the CWB and OPEC being different.

Everest hit it bang on... the CWB is controled by legislation, command and control principals... communistic theory... with the worst of both worlds of communism and democracy mutated into an absurd instrument of deceit for the purpose of controling the Canadian food supply.

If the Government of Canada needs to control our grain, then fine, buy it at fair market value, store it at the expense of the taxpayer... Then I will gladly turn my grain over to the CWB.

[chaffmeister]

henbent:

OPEC IS quite different than the CWB. As Tom said, the CWB represents about 5% of world wheat trade this year and more like 12% in recent years. OPEC members represent about 80% of all known oil reserves in the world and supply about 40% of the world's output. Quite different when you are assessing market power.

There is no way that the CWB has ever had the same impact on global wheat prices as OPEC has had on global oil prices.

As mentioned earlier, OPEC membership is voluntary - the CWB is not.

Individual members of OPEC are free to sell their oil to whomever and whenever they see fit. Their sales are not pooled with the rest of OPEC.

OPEC is not a single desk seller - it sets production (output) quotas for its members in order to stabilize prices, and as we all know, individual members are known to "break from the ranks" and over-produce when they feel a need.

The CWB's single desk selling does not "help maintain a world price". Remember, the CWB is a price taker.

[Dyno]

An interesting discussion! The trade numbers cited are very much on the low side for world wheat though. The point is, an OPEC-like wheat cartel with membership with the likes of Australia and Canada is worth researching. The new eastern eurpoean minor exporters could surely use some help with international marketing and we would be well advised to come up with ways to work with them becuase we will not compete on a cost of production basis. Ukraine has in excess of 40% of the class 1 soil in the world! Guess how much we have in canada, almost none. They have created their own domestic shortage through inpet marketing which was aided by the big multinationals. I read in agriline they are now re-importing 20,000 MT/month to survive the year! I understand the multinationals made about $50US/MT margin on the 10 million MT they bought at the farmgate in the Ukraine for $60 US and resold for $110 US FOB Black Sea port. Considering Ukraine, Kazikstan and Russia will outproduce and outexport Australia, Argentina and Canada, the US and the EU on wheat on a consistently lower cost basis into the future we better start recognizing real threats to our future in Wsetern Canada. As tom4cwb likes to say "follow the money", in this case follow the least cost producing area in the world. I think the threat from the nations formerly known as "minor exporters" will make the rest of our problems and issues seem rather trivial inside of five years.

[boone]

Dyno;
Guess where our favourite multinationals are gearing up not in Canada or U.S.A. just read a blurb about facility expansion in west side of eastern Europe, as well as northern Brazil "Shock and Awe". ADM opening soy-crushing in China like burger stands. Cargill did say they would throw some money at the new paid executive at WCWG so they still would like to tie up some loose ends here. It's a shame it has become too complex for the unwashed rank and file of that group. Maybe too many leaks.

[charliep]

Dyno

I agree with your thought about the real threat in the next five years. The question is how Canada positions itself to deal with this threat. The fortress mentality (do what we have always done in the past and hope the problem goes away).

An interesting observation is that the CWB uses the multinationals discussed here as accredited agents versus direct business with buyers. Both the multinationals and buyers are able to shop the market. The CWB only represents 15 % of world wheat trade in a good year.

[parsley]

henbent,

At least when Alberta ponies up to the table at OPEC, they'll hopefully answer the questions put to them.

You haven't done that at Agri-ville's table.

Parsley

[TOM4CWB]

Boone and Dyno;

You have become as evasive as Henbent, in recognising that we "Marketing Choice" supporters are not doing this to fill the pockets of the Multi-national grain companies.

At the rate the CWB is going, the co-operative grain handling structure in Western Canada will be destroyed in a matter of a few more years...

Mistrust, greed, and powermongering pride from the CWB is now a major driving force behind our problems. These destructive forces will totally destroy our community based grain handling Market participants... if Chretien's henchmen don't get the royal boot out of power.

Everyone is quick to blame grain handlers for doing exactly what the market told them to do, get efficient, lower costs, provide quick provision of inventory to port position, and take on the huge investment cost nessasary to make all this possible!

Since the Multi-national domestic and US consumers of our wheat and barley value-added Ag industry support marketing decisions of the CWB, while smaller inovators are being bought up and driven out of business...

Dyno, Henbent, and Boone are either intentionally working to help the Multi-national takeover of our Industry;

Or they have been so blinded by the deception/brainwashing... that is the CWB... pounded into our heads daily by the CWB, that DYNO, Henbent, and Boone refuse to look around at reality, and see the light at the other end of the tunnel is a freight train going 90.

Agricore United is the perfect example. If drastic action is not initiated, these folks are headed into exactly the same sick sad box of problems as SWP.

I understood Agricore United lost $20mil in the first quarter... and that probably was the most profitable quarter of the year!

Selling grain to our highest value Markets, with this war slapping us in the face... becomes very difficult.

JAPAN, ENGLAND, and the USA are our best high value markets for our high value grain products... yet we insist on kicking these folks in the face!

My vote is to distance ourselves as far from Ottawa as possible... there is a plague going on down east... and it is not just SCARS. It is based on Liberal corruption... that could not be sustained if Alberta was not sending 9 billion dollars a year to them... to keep them going!