Would CWB votes be different if voting was based on tonnes of product sold to the CWB

[parsley]

henbent, we all want your answer to this question.....Please answer yes or no:

Would you agree that the CWB's Licensing arm issues export/interprovincial licenses to applicants right across Canada?

Parsley

[JACKFLASH]

Henbent:
What are you talking about? GMO's have ruined the canola market. Consumers don't want it. What percentage of consumers?
As for markets. Europe produces enough canola to support itself,they hide behind the GMO scenerio, because they don't need more competition in the market.
Henbent how much GMO soybeans does Europe buy? answer lots,because they do not have the climate to support large acres to meet demand.
The U.S.,Mexico and Japan buy 80% or the canola Canada produces. We always hear about China doesn't want GMO canola.
If China could drive the price of Canadian canola down to 5.00. There would not be a seed left. 6 months later China could be exporting canola for a profit. The Chinese are astute buyers and even more astute sellers. Case in point they have done this with American corn many times. But really they are just trying to feed a huge population as cheaply as possible
To make the a long story short henbent, there are more dynamics going on in the world canola and veg oil business than this GMO crap you always want to want to rant on.

[parsley]

henbent,

If I worked for a Pharmaceutical (for instance, like Monsanto), I would do the following:

1. Make sure farmers get the message to grow bushels and bushels. And more bushels. Volumes. That way I can sell them more chemicals and ferilizers. I would make sure all the corporation's advertising campaigns reflected this message: low yields on your farm means that you are a damn poor farmer. (That's the ultimate insult!)


I would make sure that every ad tells farmers to kill every single weed because that means more bushels for you and therefore, more money for you.

2. I would promote volume exporting and support those instituions that facilitate volume exports. Bushels, bushels, bushels.

3. Sell more inputs with stronger names suitable to the job they will do. Ram, Lunge, Imbedded, Stallion, . (Avoid words like Lizard, Sheep, Goat or Turkey ).


Now here's the meat of the matter...... As the price of grain rises, the cost of inputs can rise accordingly, gaining more market share PLUS a price increase. Can't lose.

4. Partner with Government. Give generously to election campaigns to seal partnerships. Pay for Chairs at the universities. Give scholarships. Match government money. That way, half the cost of my research can be downloaded on the taxpayer. If the end results are, say, genetic pollution, the Federal Government will be sued because they have deeper pockets. ( Churches vs Federal Government in the Residential School cases)

5. Make sure that my Canadian corporate arm can undergo bankrupcy WITHOUT affecting my main Mother corporate body, if there is a class action suit, or an ecological disaster. Declare bankruptcy for the Canadian arm, and start over. This is really important.

6. Lobby bureaucrats ....Nisa, etc....so that all payouts reflect volumes....gross profit as opposed to net profit. Even if farmers didn't make any money through actual farming, the taxpayer subsidizes increasing bushels grown and the farmer can keep going!

7.Never listen to the end-users or buyers. "Educate" them. He's too uninformed to know what he wants.

That's what I'd promote if I worked for Monsanto, henbent.

But I don't work for Monsanto.

Parsley

[boone]

parsley; congratulations on that reversed lobotomy. Hey fellas it's snowing all over, great stuff.

[parsley]

Not reversed at all, boone. I really try to be consistent.

Farmers primarily grow canola because they think it will put more money in their pocket at the end of the year. Not because canola is the best rotation, (although that may well be), or because it makes good margarine. Or because they like the color of the crop. Or because they like a flowering crop.

Money. Wanting a better bottom line. Cash. $$$$$$$$$$$.

A new crop came along ...canola....and surpassed wheat/barley in dollar potential and farmers opted in. Voluntarily. Canola acreages jumped , and dollars jumped. Starting from scratch. Never underestimate niche markets and marketing attempts from the kitchen table. Canola has proven that very point.

That was my point and you missed it, probably because I didn't make the point clearly enough.

I think I've also tried to be very clear about my questions to henbent, wouldn't you say, boone?

Parsley

[boone]

parsley;yes I would say you given as good as you got. But really unless your from northern alberta you don't consider back to back canola ever, and wheat on wheat here is done but breeds glume blotch, sawfly, fusarium, etc.Our oil seeds are in a 4 year rotation, and sometimes that is still too short. No I was speaking of your clear and conscise views of how the Life Sciences (their candy coated word used here, opportunistic blood suckers is maybe too hard)groups have manufactured our consent as well as governments and academics, to draw out our good sense and replace with blind ambition.

[ianben]

Over here in UK rotation is king but this is a farmer not a marketing decision.

Perhaps this is where we go wrong.

JD in Germany produce 130 tractor a day and everyone is already sold. They prodce the entire range from 6210 to 6920S individually and to every specification.
A logistical nightmare but the customer gets what he ordered within a reasonable time scale.

It get back to parsleys point about good farmers producing more and more for less and less.

I feel marketing should start before we plant/seed.

Is there a customer who is willing to pay a realistic price for this product which fits nicely into my rotation?

Does CWB offer any guidance on quantity and qualities it can sell?

How can CWB or anyone else market effectivly if we just grow what fits our rotation and location with no regard to the end user reqirements or even his existance?

I feel canola industry does this much better than the grain industry.Would you all agree?

[TOM4CWB]

Ianben;

I agree the Canola industry does a much better job... it could do even more.

THe CWB's PRO system seems to be set up to discourage as much as possible... wheat and barley production to specific end use contracts. We must pool the profitable sales with everyone... so growing more and more, for less and less, while in reality growing less and less for less profitable returns is the massage PRO's send to me.

Rotation is obviously important... and some of us just like to grow wheat... we need to feel the market to profitably grow wheat... and I want to feel out the market... before I especially grow seed wheat... that commits my land to at least a 3 year investment. I hate going into this blindfolded... but with the CWB... there is not really any choice!

[ianben]

Sure Tom I like to grow wheat too! Has your winter wheat survived well or is it too early to tell yet?

Superb spring weather here, warm calm days ideal for field work. Everything upto date, spring canola and potatoes planted just hope there is not a sting in the tail and winter returns.

CWB long term forcast is gloomy for wheat prices right through to 2012.

Would it not be prudent for us all to plant a little less and grow for the market not our personnal preference.

[TOM4CWB]

Ianben;

Our winter wheat is still frozen under snow.... hard to tell what is going on...

I see Cargill was talking about the high quality wheat market... and how the world demand needs about 12mmt, while we normally produce 17mmt.

It certainly appears, CWB pool spreads engineer a price that pays, through CWB ficticious pool manipulations, prices we get. For many years, lower quality wheat pooled payments are much below market value. The same goes for feed barley.

If the CWB wants to become commercial, pay fair market values... then great, market choice needs to clear up these distortions and investments we make to overproduce high quality for a market that doesn't need it.

THe 2002-03 CWB PRO thread which I posted March 27th CWB market distorting projections... says it well enough.

With no stocks of wheat left in Canada... and lowest stocks of wheat world wide in decades... it seems foolish not to grow wheat, wouldn't you say Ianben?

[ianben]

If Cargill is correct we produce nearly a third more quality wheat than is wanted or will atract a premium at least.

This must lower prices for quality and thus wheat price in general.

At least Cargill do tell us these figures real numbers unlike CWB long term forcast which was vague and in my opinion gave no guidance on what they wanted or could sell.

Cargill on the other hand it would appear is trying to say grow less quality wheat which is over produced world-wide and more specific use canola which if you guarentee to supply we have a market for.

Haylage is becoming popular with horse customers. It is no good me saying my hay is best quality so I will continue to produce the same quantities when the demand has halved. Obviously I must produce some haylage and offer a full sevice to the customer.

Unless CWB gives guidance on quality and quantity you must be right that it gives Canadian farmers a bad deal and also reduces my price in UK.

Do you need to grow a product that is oversupplied by nearly a third just because you like to grow it and it fits into your rotation?

[TOM4CWB]

Ianben;

You said, "Haylage is becoming popular with horse customers".

How do you get around poisoning of the horse, by bacterial contamination by dead mice etc. in the haylage, that can easily kill the horse?

[TOM4CWB]

Ianben;

Since Haylage is less risky to get up in good (no dust) condition, and yeilds more product per acre, obviously if the Customer wants it, it is in everyone's best interests to create it.

DO you use innoculants to create it, plastic wrap it, actually ensile it or just provide it at 30-40% moisture?

Good points on the CWB... they are bang on!

[ianben]

What we call haylage is made as hay, which normally takes 4/5 dry days here.

Haylage is baled on day 3/4 and wrapped in cling film as soon as possible. All sizes and shappes of bales can be wrapped. Our customers prefer 80x80x150 heston type as easier to feed but 4ft round are the most common. When opened it is supposed to be moist and bit like tobacco.We prefer a least three hores to be fed on a bale so it is all eaten before it starts to deteriorate but some customers manage with one horse and a bale every 14 days.

All bales are on a return basis if not up to standard when opened due to air getting in. Birds are more of a problem than rodents, crows and magpies love land on stored bales and peck at the plastic.
Any bale not perfect is fed to our cattle with no ill effects to date. I hope that is not tempting fate and there will be trouble tomorrow.

We cannot justify big baler and wrapper yet as still need small baler for hay and straw.

So contractor/custom baler and plastic costs make it difficult to decide which is most profitable.

As usual good weather is the key with both but one day less risk with haylage is a plus.

[TOM4CWB]

Ianben;

How do you handle the plastic wrapped bales, without making holes in the wrap while transporting them to the customer?

Do you stack the wrapped bales, right after wrapping, in a shed? How do you move them around in the yard, without breaking the plastic seal?

Is there much timothy/brome/fescue in these horse hay bales, or are they mostly alfalfa?