March 02-03 CWB PRO

[winston]

The way that the CWB has priced our wheat this year makes me sick. Here we are in one of the few years in a farmers career where he thought he might make some money and they did not sell any wheat when the price was high.

How pathetic

[TOM4CWB]

Charlie;

I saw this report on ODJ wire services reporting CWB prices;

April 1st, 2003
Grade St. Lawrence CWB Price
1 CWRS 13.5% $260.45/t CDN

The following are the Canadian Wheat Board's Thunder Bay domestic prices, in Canadian dollars per metric ton, instore.

Milling Grade Price
1 CWRS 17.5% to 10.0% $253.88/t except the following #1 CWRS Grades
1 CWRS 14.5% 251.08/t
1 CWRS 14.0% 248.28 /t
1 CWRS 13.5% 242.68/t
1 CWRS 13.0% 248.28/t
1 CWRS 12.5% 251.08/t
2 CWRS 17.5% to 10.0% $231.48/t
3 CWRS 221.48/t
1 CPSR 221.48/t
2 CPSR 220.38/t
1 CWRW 218.68/t
2 CWRW 217.58/t
1 CWES 220.38/t
2 CWES 219.28/t
1 SWS 198.58/t
2 SWS 192.48/t
3 SWS 191.28/t
Cda Fd 210.28/t
1 CWAD 303.01/t
2 CWAD 294.61/t
3 CWAD 289.61/t

Now, how do we match up these prices with CWB PRO's?

What market signals are real, and what is fiction, CWB PRO's or CWB offering prices to our customers?

[TOM4CWB]

Charlie;

I did a little checking... March 28th CWB prices Thunder Bay were about $1.50/t lower than April 1st reported prices in this table... the spreads are almost exactly the same... between all the grades reported.

Here is the PRO/TBay spread Comparison

CWB March 27th 2003 PRO
Based on Vancouver/ St Lawerance In store prices.

1 CWRS 14.5% 251.08/t CWB PRO $262/t
1 CWRS 13.5% 242.68/t CWB PRO $256/t
1 CWRS 12.5% 251.08/t CWB PRO $253/t
2 CWRS 13.5% 231.48/t CWB PRO $244/t
3 CWRS 221.48/t CWB PRO $223/t
1 CPSR 221.48/t CWB PRO $216/t
1 CWRW 218.68/t CWB PRO $210/t
1 CWES 220.38/t CWB PRO $217/t
1 SWS 198.58/t CWB PRO $220/t
Cda Fd 210.28/t CWB PRO $139/t

CWB Durum PRO at 13% protein
1 CWAD 303.01/t CWB PRO $284/t
2 CWAD 294.61/t CWB PRO $272/t
3 CWAD 289.61/t CWB PRO $240/t

[charliep]

I will leave for discussion other than to note the following.

1) You are comparing apples and oranges in that one is a Thunder Bay price and the other is port based (Vancouver/St. Lawrence). You also need to know a lot more about how the CWB does pricing to western Canadian millers and the adjustments to these prices. This is private business as negotiated by the Canadian National Millers Association and the CWB.

2) As with pool returns to farmers, the millers price is set on a base grade (1CWRS 13.5 protein) with spreads applied to bring to other grades relative to the based. The spread (from my days at the CWB) is reviewed regularly but not changed everyday. It is spreads based on market signals and not actual US sales prices/market signals from other markets that determine the price relation between classes, grades and proteins.

Just as question to guage understanding of CWB pricing practices, what price would a domestic mill pay for wheat destined for an export market where the competition is subsidized wheat from the Europe Union?

[TOM4CWB]

Charlie;

The actual TBay prices are of interest, obviously, of more interest to me is the specific spreads between the classes.

The CWB has proudly stated many times that the PRO's are accurate to the actual returns received for the grains we "sell" the CWB.

How can this be the case?

Canada Feed is sold at $210/t, yet the CWB is telling us the PRO of $139/t is accurate... when we know this is for a fact to be false.

It matters not if 10t, 1000t, or 10,000t of feed wheat are sold to the CWB, this is obviously expropriation with out FAIR compensation... something only the CWB could possibly get away with.

Canada Feed wheat is VERY important, because it is used as the CWB hold on it's "monopoly"... a hold that is illegal, because the price inside and outside Canada in NOT reflected by the PRO or initial price for Canada Feed wheat... PLUS the pecuniary benefit enuring to the applicant requesting the export license is NOT reflected by this process in reality.

THe Canada Feed Wheat PRO price is pure and simple... a economic tarriff, or TAX/FINE being paid by anyone who happens to get caught in the CWB stickey trap... NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM a realistic value the CWB can get for wheat that actually is of this quality.

I see that the SWS wheat is being given away, lucky Soft White Wheat producers are reaping a huge pooling benefit, or the millers and or bakers getting this wheat are steal of a deal... one or the other... or could be both.

Spreads on CPS vs. CWRS are way out of line with initial prices... and the Fed. gov. will have a hard time changing initial prices... as the CWB has obviously selling for below initial prices already, the PRO's prove this, as the PRO's couldn't be this low unless the CWB was selling below the initial prices... IMHO!

[charliep]

Your question are relevant to understanding how the pooling process works and relationships between sale prices and actual payments farmers recieve. Because of the averaging process across time, customers and ports/domestic deliveries, this becomes very difficult. I find it interesting that some of the most vocal CWB supporters have the least understanding of this process. If they do, their task is to articulate the concept/process and lets have the discussion on this basis.

[TOM4CWB]

Charlie;

You wrote;

"Just as question to guage understanding of CWB pricing practices, what price would a domestic mill pay for wheat destined for an export market where the competition is subsidized wheat from the Europe Union?"

Is there any wonder why subsidies keep increasing in the wheat market?

It takes two to tango... and the CWB is not restricted at all, in dropping prices to "price discriminate" and "compete" against what the CWB precieves is competiton from the US and EU treasuries.

Now the CWB is going to tap into the Alberta Govenment's treasury... through the Spring Price Endorsment in the Crop Insurance program.

The CWB feels it is justified in ratcheting up the trade war... too bad it is a "designated area" farmer paying the cost... many times out if farm and community equity instead of CDN Gov. coffers... who authorises this insanity.

This system has no CWB self-dicipline other than to lower wheat and barley production... which by the way makes the CWB "Happy" because they have less work to do, when less grain is produced, that the CWB is responsible to market!

Just how many CWB staff workers were let go, in the past two years, even though CWB marketing volumes have droped by over half!

I don't know that there is one less person working for the CWB today, than was working for them a year ago.

SO how do we stop this vicious cycle of economic terrorism... if the CWB has no accountability or grasp on reality to shake the stupidity out of what they are doing?

[boone]

Tom4cwb; You would have to go back through the Western Producer from about 1970-72 somewhere but I remember if memory serves me, the Palliser Grain Growers taking the board to task for stepping out of the durum market. They believed it was stupid after all our years of small quotas 4bu. being quite common, to not keep selling. Well as it turned out when the great grain robbery became obvious to all, they just quietly slinked back into the grass and delivered the next year for three times the money they would have received. Now I'm not saying this will offset todays possible mistakes or tommorrows, but let's see how this all comes out. If the damage is done us wailing about it here is premature and illadvised. Keep your powder dry.

[TOM4CWB]

Boone;

Here are this weeks prices:

April 04 03
St. Lawrence Prices $CDN/t in store
Milling Grade Price
1 CWRS 13.5% 259.80
1 CWAD 344.00
2 CWAD 339.00
3 CWAD 334.00

Thunder Bay Prices $CDN/t in store
Milling Grade Price
1 CWRS 15.0%253.76 over 15 Px
1 CWRS 14.5%250.96
1 CWRS 14.0% 248.15
1 CWRS 13.5%242.56
1 CWRS 13.0%248.16
1 CWRS 12.5%250.96
1 CWRS 12.0%253.76
1 CWRS 253.76 under 12 Px,
2 AllPxCWRS 231.36
3AllPxCWRS221.36
1CPSR221.36
2CPSR220.26
1CWRW218.56
2CWRW217.46
1CWES220.26
2CWES219.16
1SWS200.65
2SWS194.55
3SWS193.35
CdaFd210.16
1CWAD305.57
2CWAD297.17
3CWAD292.17


I don't care how good you may think CWB marketing experts may be...

It must be the farmer's right to decide, whether or not the grain this person grew, what price this grain should be priced at.

At what price, is it fair for the CWB to price this farm's and community's grain that person represents?

The answer can only be decided by the people who grew this grain, not someone who sits in the CWB, and doesn't have a clue what they are doing to our farms.

If I chose to voluntarily use the CWB... fine, then the CWB has the right to price at whatever price they choose...

But until this "marketing choice" option is created... the CWB is illegally expropriating grain... without fair compensation.

THe CWB tells us our wheat is worth $312/t, when we contract it(A series). Then 5 months later, the CWB says it is only worth $256/t... when it could have all easily been sold well above $312/t!

IMHO This is nothing but an organised crime... scam ....BOONE!

[bmj182]

I've commented on this before and I guess it
needs further adressing. The Gov't of
Saskatchewan has been sending aid to the
Ukraine for the last two years, this from a
province that is barely developed itself! The
agricultural economy HERE is in desperate
straits! The Ukraine is not a third world
country, definately not in the same sense as
Ethiopia, or many other African nations. I
find it hard to stomach sending aid to a
country which lied about its grain stocks
(DTN news) dropping wheat prices world
wide and is now short of grain again! I hate
to talk conspiracy but there are a lot of NDP
cabinet minister's that are of Ukrainian
origin. You don't see them sending aid to
Ireland, Scotland, etc. ! Helping people is an
admirable thing to do but can you really say
your helping industry in Saskatchewan by
doing this? Especially when everything
here seems to be falling apart? You don't
see McDonald's helping out BurgerKing
when times are tough! Enough said.