Shouldn't the CWB go to jail?

[boone]

Tom4cwb,Kernel etc. I don't think there has been any name calling unless your refering to zealot which is more of I think in this case a condition or symptomatic reaction. You keep talking about Ontario like you expect a level playing field, as some one that has subscribed to The Rural Voice for a least a dozen years, they have their battles too. However in the case of wheat they had it heads and tails over us when there was a two price wheat system as well. They were growing Katepwa wheat and hauling it down the road to flour mills for 8.00 per bushell when the rest of us were getting world price plus a meager share of CWB sales to the millers in Canada. Lifes a bitch sometimes, but dumping on a system without CONSTRUCTIVE input with your only credo being self interest God help us and eventually all as me first and the devil take the hindmost. You know you fellas didn't invent to thine own self be true it's gotta history we've been there before, Ask your grandad or great uncle. At the end of the day should we all become a bunch of grasping squeeling boars stepping accross each others strewn bodies. Now Tom that is a bunch of words. Consider them.Boone

[TOM4CWB]

Boone;

Constructive criticism...Hmmmm

I will give it an honest try Boone...

The CWB does not charge a buy-back on a host of barley and wheat that leaves the "designated area"... if Canadian law requires the buyback… then why doesn't the CWB charge it to everyone?

1. In Creston BC…which was in the CWB "designated area" till 1998..., from 1983-1998, these CWB wheat farmers got no cost export licenses... exemption from quota's and contract calls... all because the CWB said they were getting poor elevator service from the Alberta Wheat Pool... and the railroad.

Creston wheat growers still had to fill out a CWB permit book each year... and enter each export load going into the US... in the CWB Permit book, and on the no-cost export license.

If the CWB Act requires the CWB to charge the buy-back... and it is mandatory under the CWB Act...why did these people receive a no cost export license while Manitoba farmers were going to jail for doing exactly the same thing?

2. Why do "designated area" pedigreed wheat and barley seed growers get the same no cost license exemption as the folks in "Creston" got?

The CWB Act has no exemptions written in for seed on “seeding purposes” as the CWB makes people swear it is to be exported for…

If the law is that all "designated area" wheat and barley being exported from Canada must be sold through the Pooling account of the CWB… and, since a CWB Act seed exemption doesn't exist... why does the CWB exempt the very seed stocks of our high quality grains?

Since the US northern plains can compete on quality directly with the same "designated area" varieties we grow, without buyback charges…

now

I understand close to 40% of the wheat and barley grown now... in the northern US… are our Canadian varieties! And the CWB exported them with no restrictions at all.

3. Manufactured feed with up to 75% wheat or barley is allowed into the US... with no buy-back charged...(according to the CWB Act over 25% is within CWB jurisdiction) so these "designated area" feed mills... many of which are integrated multinational companies... are exempt from the "designated area" buy-back system as well, with out CWB Act exemptions... WHY?

4. The CWB PPO contracts are unfair and deceptive… they state we will not be charged any more than the CWB costs… but in reality the basis is both unfair and punitive for anyone unfortunate enough to get sucked into doing one of these contracts… And the CWB directors can’t even experience how bad these contracts are… they made it against the law for a director to even do a PPO contract.

So Boone… I it is my job… to do PPO contracts… and it is my obligation to bring to the attention of yourself… as well as the CWB… that these contracts are unfair… and unworthy of existence, and especially as being promoted a “market choice” option, in any free and democratic country.

How do we resolve these issues Boone?

Now Boone... I have considered honestly what you have pointed out...

Will you respect my right to honestly question why the CWB breaks the law... and sends farmers to jail... for only doing what the CWB already allows many other farmers in the "designated area" to do without cost or punishment?

[boone]

Tom4cwb I have been aware of the bulk of what you are telling me a (seed sales,Creston, feedmills except for the percentages of whole grains in the mix). I respect your right to speak out that is how change is made. But your frustration (and you are aware of this as much as the rest of us) moves us from making well presented arguments with substantiated facts. One point I would like to advance here is everyone of our elevators are having trouble turning a normal return on capital for a variety of reasons, and you and I both know that they have very little risk offset (basis) for board grains put in to their handling fees. This is of course because they are pure toll handlers except for buying and missblending mistakes. The CWB you/me underwrite these costs. (right or wrong). Can you imagine what they would have to do in a future without CWB. They will be forced to repatriate the basis the CWB has squeezed out of them on tenders to keep a float. Now I think you may feel it would be worth it, but think, they aren't going to create this 8-14 $ per tonne out of thin air. It will come out of yours and mine price per tonne. As a cost associated to risk, once this happens the only ones that can carry this can are The multis. The small independents and farmer and family owned are toast. Margins too small, risk is too great. In a best case scenario our wheat board and our sovereignty would die together, and we would become part of U.S.A. marketing and subsidy system but you and I both know this idea is stillbirth. So till we can get in writing that we will be one market in perpetuity for heaven sakes be carefull what you wish for. Does this make any sense. Boone

[TOM4CWB]

Boone;

I didn't ever say the CWB should be disposed of or wound down.

I am simply asking why the CWB does not operate within the CWB Act... a fair question I hope.

My biggest problem is that the lack of accountability created by the present operational CWB system... is unfair for anyone to operate under...

When a CWB sales person... has authority to sell at a deep discount price... and/or give "special" deals on the buy-back system (as this was what they offered me)... then IMHO the system is not sustainable.

I do understand the risk on the basis... however Mr. Earl Geddes showed us Monday, the tendering bonanza has shrunk by almost half in the last year...

I understand the fairness of the CWB charging a reasonable basis... I have no problem with this...

Now, my concern is, that unless the CWB changes to more of an operation much like the Ontario Wheat Board... only for the time being without a marketing exemption outside the CWB... the transparency this would create would reduce 95% of the building pressure to remove the monopoly.

If the CWB refuses to allow minimum price contracts, reasonable basis contracts and DDC's... but most important of all... a cash price with open transparent bidding for our grain like Ontario and Australia do now... the CWB will create so much pressure within the "designated area" that it will totally explode then implode.

Farmer Trust is the key to the survival of the CWB... and unfortunately the CWB has given me alomost every reason possible to exclaim... I have been dealt with unfairly... from being denied access to the CWB Library... to being asked to swear a false statutory declaration by CWB sales staff... to being promised an export license... then denying it at the worst possible time...

If the CWB is to continue buying grain in western Canada... it must do this responsibly, with integrety... while respecting my property.

THe CWB you seem to claim exists... is a CWB that facilitates your marketing needs on your farm...

Sadly my experence... and the experence of many previous CWB supporters who have been jilted by the CWB... and are now furious with them will tell you...

THe CWB space shuttle had better check the heat sheilding tiles... cause a design flaw... plus many years of neglecting integrety when dealing with farmers... has left the CWB in re-entry mode... at full speed... about to burn to a crisp.

I can say this 12,000 times... and it won't possibly change your mind...

BUT when it is gone... I will be no more happy than you... because I will have obviously failed to prevent the disaster!

And that makes my heart heavy and sad... cause many good people with good intentions will be destroyed and/or wounded for the rest of their lives

[TOM4CWB]

Will this thread ever end.

I would like to say here and now that there would be no harm in the present system if we allow the farmers of Alberta to participate as a test market area for if nothing else than a benchmarking process.

Lets not be afraid of the dark as there is a glimmer of hope in the distant. Thanks to the Alberta free entreprising attitude.

[boone]

kernel/Tom4cwb, The line "Children go Where Angels Fear To Tread" comes to mind here but I understand what you are asking for, and once we have a better understanding of a fail safe clause within NAFTA to back up if need be, it may proceed. Your Ag minister (Ab.) is certainly working hard for these changes, and even as she comes across as naive, I believe her heart is with the Pro Dual Market, even if she has no way of understanding the ramifications. In her position that is allowed, at least for now. (review line one). As for changing my opinion. I'll eat no matter what is in place, believe me. I have no belicose agenda.
Boone

[henbent]

TOM4CWB, kernel, parsley, So finally the light comes on, if we are all to be treated like Ontario, the waters will be calmed. It turns out that the cultural, intellectuals in central Canada are doing it right after all. AB becomes a clone of Ontario, now correct me if I'm wrong here!! I thought that most folks out west were jealous of ON, and now it seems that in reality it was ENVY the whole time. Tnx guys for setting me straight on this aspect of things!!

[henbent]

Now I see why we have the CWB. Its for marketing challenged farm boys who are mentally challenged as well and were uncapable of getting as they say a real job in town. We will leave the CWB in place for the people who need protection from places where angels don't go. But we will free up the rest of the industry who want to manage their business without a whole lot a government interference and pooling price discounts.

[TOM4CWB]

Henbent;

You do have the democratic right... to look and feel the way you do...

I would respectfully suggest that progress is painful for many... and a challenge that creates opportunity for many others.

4 years ago the Ontario Wheat Board operated much like the CWB does today... so this is not a historical issue... that comes out of envy... rather it is a true matter of innovation and strong leadership by and for the wheat farmers in Ontario...

I suspect that I am a little jealous that Ontario farmers were constructive enough to face reality... and construct a more efficient marketing system... that meets marketing needs of the commercial farmer in the 21st century!

PLEASE forgive me for this jealousy...

[henbent]

kernel, TOM4CWB, When I said we all want to be administered by the Ont Wheat Board, I meant it. Buyback would not be a concern, hauling to the US and getting world class pricing, generally cutting all the red tape and tossing the CWB conspirators and their families would be a thrill indeed! Finally points that we can agree on TOM4CWB. Have we come full circle yet?

kernel, you know I don't like calling you that, you seem more like a corporal. But then again Hitl-r was a little corporal before becoming chancellor of the Fatherland, shouting,ranting,name calling, pointing to the inferior lazy people and burning books. Pretty insightful comparison being that I'm a mentally challenged lazy farm boy, ever read Mein Kamfe or Kamphe, sorry I don't spell so good either.

Sure hope I can get the CWB Spring Cash Advance this year so we can keep going. But maybe that is a bad program too, after all they do charge interest on outstanding balances, that aren't paid back on time.