Shouldn't the CWB go to jail?

[TOM4CWB]

Kernel

Yesterday, I deposited a cheque... that included interest from August of 1996... from Canada customs... a full refund of the money I paid to get my truck out of government seizure for hauling wheat to the US of A... and appealed to the Cdn. Minister of Customs for wrongfull seizure.

SO, now that Customs is refunding everyone's money that appealed the seizures... what exactly did the farmers go to jail for?

Instead of the CCRA Minister saying the seizures were proper and legal, and allowing us to challenge the seizures in Court, they refused us our day in Court... what a deal...

Henbent;

If we broke the CWB Act, why doesn't the CWB charge us directly for a breach of the CWB Act?

Kernel is right, this did start in 1993 after Nettie Weebe and Art Macklin complained to the Cdn. Gov.... what was the direct result?

Instead of "designated area" fusarium devistated wheat growers getting Fair Market Value... Multi National grain Companies were placed, by the CWB monopoly, in a place of extractive power, and made millions buying Manitoba grain that had fusarium...

Further...preferential buy-backs were given to CDN. elevator companies as well, proven by M-Jay Farms in court.

This CWB problem has an extensive and twisted history... when will justice be allowed to resolve this CWB situation?

Henbent, the only Court judgement of significance,... so far.... to clearly make the decision that the CWB monopoly,

...has NO DUTY OF CARE TO "designated area" grain growers...

no obligation to maximize our returns going into the pooling accounts...only to be responsible to the minister responible for the CWB and parliament....

Now Henbent, shouldn't all "designated area" grain producers,

...including yourself... have real concern about what is going on ... down at the CWB?

[henbent]

HELLO FELLOW CWB SUPPORTERS,
I am getting picked on here. Am I the 23% majority that supports the board? Is there anyone else out there, or are we all such wimps, that we are terrified to respond to some of these wild arguments and allegations? You know if these fellows say them long enough and loud enough, people will soon start believing this stuff!!! They love the current grain companies and railroad services.

[TOM4CWB]

Henbent;

It would be really simple... if you were in fact right, about the facts...

It is painful for you, as it was very painful and hurtfull for me, to learn and uncover just how gulable and easily I was decieved by the CWB...

I am to love my neighbour... and that means exposing what my neighbour is doing... when justice is being laid waste underfoot...

Henbent... who exactly invested billions in western Canada... to create one of the most efficient grain handling systems on this planet?

Was it the CWB?

Last I checked it was commercial farmers, grain companies, and the transportation sector that rose to the challenge... and created what we have today...

On top, every grain handling company I have dealt with in the past 7 years... since my "Road to Damascus conversion" has proven to be honourable and honest with me... except the CWB ...

What more can I say... the issues you seek to protect farmers from, are being done to farmers, by the CWB itself... the CWB is by far the worst culpret.

Isn't the CWB paying me $70/t for my feed wheat, while it itself is able to get $170/t for this same wheat... proof enough that something is drastically wrong?

[parsley]

henbent,

Traditionally, farmers have always believed what the CWB told them. If the CWB said you had to do a buyback to get a license, it must be true. The courts also relied upon the CWB as their chief "expert" regarding the CWB. After all, who could be more expert about the CWB than the CWB themselves?

In fact, in every courtcase about the CWB, one fact has been agreed upon by both the prosecution (usually the CWB or Customs) and the Defense(usually famers).

Every judge has been told by both sides that the buyback is a legislative requirement to getting a license. No one has ever disputed this in court. And of course, this "fact" is a Wheat Board fact....it's a lie.

What is so disconcerting is:
1. The CWB itself concoted this requirment and
2. the CWB knows it is not true

Your Director from Alberta, Jim Chatenay asked the Board that question last year..."Is the buyback a legal requirement to getting a license" and he is still waiting for a written answer.

There should be no problem for the CWB to write Chatenay and state it clearly on paper..."The buyback is legally required to getting an export license and this requirement is described in 46(d)." Why would they not do this for a Board member?

Of couse if they do state this on paper, henbent, Ontario and Quebec will have to do the buyback, too, because that particular part of the Act applies to all of Canada.

I don't want a lying , manipulative business partner, henbent, and a lot of farmers are like me and are getting so they don't want the Board either. The CWB has lost a lot of respect in the farm community. Ten years ago, there were only a few farmers asking questions. Today there are thousands.


I acknowledge that there are some farmers who want the monopoly maintained at any cost....deception, lying, manipulation, and jailing, whatever it takes,and if it takes more scheming, or extortion, and more cover-ups, so be it. Ignore the Act!Support anything the CWB does.

These kinds of Wheat Board Advocates support the CWB intimidating other farmers . They support the CWB alienating Border runners. They support the CWB trying to humiliate those who ask hard questions.

Why? It seems to me they do it because they believe that the more money that goes into the pooling accounts....the more they might make. In other words, they do it for personal gain.

Think about that, henbent.

Parsley

[parsley]

Tom4cwb:Being you got a full refund plus your interest back on the unlawful seizure of your vehicle. I suggest that the farmers who were jailed for removing their vehicles, that were unlawfully seized, should sue customs and the courts for the error that they made.

If you were not charged with CWB offence or customs offence where do they get the authority to seize your vehicle. Its that simple.

Henbent don't be offended by what we are saying and proving about the CWB. I was a CWB support myself a few years ago untill more and more of this information has come to light that has changed my mind. Don't get me wrong I don't believe in breaking the law to get thinks done but I don't hold it against fellow farmers who have the strenght with in them to bring attention to an unjust CWB.

But do ask more questions about the CWB because they are your business partner in selling wheat and barley and you should know if they are worthy of your relationship.

[henbent]

kernel, parsley, TOM4CWB, In the cases where farmers went to jail, it was an instance of GRANDSTANDING. It was an attempt to garner support for their anti-board stance and attempt to sway the recent CWB Directorship votes, however it failed. I believe that most farmers realize, that there is strength in numbers, (everyman for himself just won't work!!) You fellows appear to be marketing gurus, and thus feel that you have a leg up on the rest of us. Are their brokers and clipboard grain agents among you, waiting to pounce on the rest of us poor vulnerable souls out here, when the CWB is trashed.
I believe that already, farmers in Alberta are reinventing the Alberta Wheat Pool, (new age Co-Ops etc). Orderly marketing from a position of power must prevail in the commodities marketplace.
I get the feeling you fellows, want the dirty 30's to return for everyone, but you. Sorry the giant conspiracy theory just doesn't hold water with me.
Was the recent audit of the CWB, a sham? Is the Auditor General a crook too!! What about that CWB director who went into the board, a couple of years ago, a free marketer, didn't he return to the fold of the CWB after his term?
I love the free unregulated markets, checked you power bill or gas bill lately.

[parsley]

henbent,

You view your customer(Cargill, Con-Agra, SWP etc) as a vulture waiting to pounce on you, while others view their customers as vital partners in their marketing program.

Farmers rely upon the elevators,not to just buy grain, but to provide information, verify moisture and grades, lend equipment, and to help discover other markets...such as who is buying screeings on farm, or who has specialized cleaning equipment.

Every grain company, every feed and flour mill, and every processing plant is their potential customer if they agree to do business. If they can get along. We need them to know we do not despise them. We want them to know that we value them and like them to hire local people. To do otherwise isn't fostering a symbiotic partnership.

I would hope that the CWB treats their customers (other countries) in such a respectful manner. To do otherwise does not forge harmony in a partnership that can benefit all....CWB wants to sell and Iran wants to buy. Be respectful even if you cannot strike a bargain because this is not a FORCED liason; this is done by mutual respect and consent, rather like a marriage.

Some Agri-villers will be indeed be better marketers than others. Some will be better at math and some will sing in tune, but that is fine because the farm community is rich in diversity and we thrive with choice in our lives.

But, one CWB accountant tagging behind one Prairie CWB salesman accompanied by Prairie farmers singing in unison, "Wheat Board loves me this I know", just doesn't represent the guys who grow most of the grain in the West.

The farmers who went to jail don't like forced marriages because many of them found markets for their grain, such as the fusarium wheat that the CWB told them to burn in the stubble. Many of them have decided that the CWB is not working within the CWB's marriage Act, and it is time for a divorce.

All those "vulnerable" farmers wanting 'one voice-one price-one market-one pool' should try to form a liason with those Directors you refer to, henbent... ... and market in unison after the CWB implodes.

As business partners, all will undoubtdly be confident that these Dirctors will keep their word. Each business contract can reflect the harshest enforcement necessary to provide absolute equality. A micro single-desk with the "right kind of people", so to speak.

You'll be rid of fact-finders, and as you know, dealing with facts is sometimes difficult. thalpenny and vader could not address the facts about the buyback on Agri-ville. CWB Director Jim Chateney sent a letter to the Minister of the CWB asking if the buyback is mandated in the legislation, but the Minister is "studying" it. That was last fall. It seems Board supporters inevitably dismiss the facts with, "None of the facts matter, I just like the CWB".

Parsley

[parsley]

Henbent: you refer to farmers in classes of good markets and bad markets. Lenghty studies in the open market stated the different in a good and a bad marketer over a lenght of time is somewhere between 5 cents and 10 cents a bushel. What most opponents of the CWB are saying is that the open market creates more competition for our grain and a greater oppertunity to risk manage your farm through different pricing options. For example last fall you could have price your wheat at $9.00 or more, the CWB pro is looking like $6.00 for the same kind of milling wheat now.

You probable would say that price is once in life chance. We begg to differ and want marketing choice which will create more oppertunities for higher prices. Single desk selling controls over 40% of the exportable wheat in the world. An their way of marketing that(discrimate pricing) in to the world holds the price of wheat down.

The CWB could be the worst problem that the family farm has. Henbent you sound like Art Maclin.

[henbent]

Kernel, This topic will be dicussed forever, from the looks of it. Coffee conversation in prairie shops always gets around to the CWB. It appears to be old guys against new guys. In most cases the young ones, shout down the old ones, who smile, nod their heads and finally agree with what has been said. But take a close look at these guys, they've been there and done that. They have the built up wisdom of a lifetime and often are CWB supporters. Oh yeah they'll always tell the story about their Grandpa or Uncle who got screwed out of 5 cents by the CWB in 39 and then smile. They marvel at the young guys and their computers, then refer to it as the missinformation highway when talk of marketing begins.
I've found that on most occassions the open market initially looks good, however, as the payments roll in the CWB does as well or better in the long run. Bye the way, I do support Art Macklin, I know and trust him, if I'm not mistaken he is a farmer too!! Is he bent on self destruction, I think not.

[TOM4CWB]

Kernel;

The problem with the $9/bu price for wheat outside the "designated area" is this...

When this cash price is visible, and avaliable, in other countries around the world... this really encourages other farmers to grow wheat... and those who did get the $9/bu have financial reserves to average through lower prices... real staying power to be long term consistant suppliers.

The fact that the CWB will not allow a cash price that is transparent... is masking price signals... and causing real misuse of our limited farm resourses...

I had a neighbour price feed wheat for next fall on a $3/t basis off the futures... with a $4/t liquidation charge if he cannot supply in the fall of 03...

There is no reason the CWB should be charging $40/t for liquidation when the competition is ten times less... more proof the monopoly is used against us rather than extracting a premium for people like Henbent and myself.

So Charlie...

Is the Alberta gov. timeline longer term... or will we be seeing a plan for real "choice" action in the next 6 months?