Shouldn't the CWB Go to Jail? Part II

[henbent]

ianben, We market, or pull the trigger for lots of reasons, ie the time is right the product is about to spoil, we need the cash, there are tax implications, my neighbours are selling therefore I should to, my neighbour desperately needs my product, the bottom has fallen out of the market, or we feel it is time to take a profit on and on and on it goes. Apparently the US is about to introduce "Country of Origin Labelling". Guess what? The COW GUYS are afraid of this law. Why? Because Americans stick together and will buy American first even though according to sources their beef is inferior to ours! We have a NFTA trade agreement that allows us to sell our gas/oil and water, yes fresh water to the US free of tariff. But not lumber or wheat at the moment. What suckers we have turned into, chasing the almighty Greenback.

[ianben]

Henbent
All those reason for selling are just that selling not marketing.
Your CWB sells wheat one year 20million tonnes the next 8million with no regard to customer requirments or local market.

Little wonder US is forced to impose a tarif to protect its farmers.

The US like the UK and EU has only small and gettting smaller every year demand for your high quality wheat. The rest of the world apart from Japan cannot afford to pay as low commodity prices make them poorer.

Does CWB give any guidance on qualities and quantities it wants you to produce?

You may not be a Monsanto fan but they do market their products well.
Pricing to give good return to Monsanto. Delivering what it says on the can and leaving just enough profit for the farmer to keep him wanting more.

Good marketing is not about empty bins and high yeilds. Forced sales to meet cash flow and keeping up with the neighbours.

Good marketing starts with growing what the customer wants then delivering at a price and quantity which sustains the customer relationship. Todays systems seem produce the opposite.

Fleece or be fleeced

Neither CWB or Cargils etc. provide this sevice for farmers and customers but both could with more understanding and realist marketing by farmers

Farmers and the world would benefit if somebody did dont you think?

[rain]

My question to henbent stands. If the law or rules or what ever you want to call it changed tomorrow would henbent go with it. Once I have this question answered I can ask the next question.

Henbent yes or no. Thats all I am looking of for and answer.

[henbent]

ianben, As I pointed out earlier, we market/sell for lots of different reasons. Our location, climate, soil, conditions, and economics ie, extremely high natural gas and fuel price limit what farms can/will produce. Marketing is selling, making a profit on what you produce is a must. We are guided by, sell it or smell it, reality that exists in the world of commodity markets. The CWB allows us the freedom to do our work and know with some sense of certainty that a market exists to sell into. We have the other option of selling into the open market, if/when conditions exist that make that to our advantage. Other options exist, but the trade off there is that at times you have to wait/don't get paid for your produce. The vast majority of us don't have time nor the inclination to become involved and an elaborate marketing scheme. Subsidy programs, do not exist in Canada to give us the room to hire the pros. World wide, producers face the same sort of problem, divide and conquer, then buyers and processors win no matter what the product.

[TOM4CWB]

Ianben;

"The US like the UK and EU has only small and gettting smaller every year demand for your high quality wheat. The rest of the world apart from Japan cannot afford to pay as low commodity prices make them poorer.

Does CWB give any guidance on qualities and quantities it wants you to produce?"

THis is the real issue with the CWB that has been avoided by the Henbent's of the world Ianben.

The CWB solution is to produce all super high quality, and then sell the majority of our wheat through a "price discrimination" system, that price discounts to the vast majority of our customers who do not need super high quality.

"Designated Area" grain producers pay a huge price in productivity because of this CDN gov. policy.... Creston B.C. farmers refused to play this CWB game and were given no-cost export licenses... and then finally were given refuge outside the "designated area".

The CWB has done such a good job of brainwashing people like Henbent... and continue to hold power by spending millions of dollars of "designated area" grain producers money to "educate" the rest of us who need the opportunity to be innovative with our Marketing strategys.

On my farm, I try to grow what is valued and needed by a consumer... and what can econmically provide a profit while providing an enjoyable work experence for those we employ....

I see Henbent wants to let the CWB find markets... and market what he has grown... and is happy paying whatever the CWB charges for this service.... well and fine with me, if the CWB didn't force me to pay a huge sum to cross subsidise Henbent.

Until Marketing choice is allowed... and the Ontario Wheat Board experence proves it is viable... the Creston B.C. experence proves it is possible... and the selling of manufactured feed and pedigreed seed without the "CWB Buy-back" proves it is legal...

I will not rest till my neighbours are allowed the right to market with innovation and maximum respect for the property my neighbour has.

And that includes your property Ianben, cause you are being hurt by the CWB just as I am being hurt!

Henbent doesn't have a problem with the economic or personal pain... Henbent bestows upon us... which I personally don't believe is fair.

[ianben]

Tom
If only we could market wheat like we both market straw. Did you manage to supply your guy with the drought?
Straw prices are low here. Good weather at harvest and reduced demand after two high priced years. It is surpising what alternatives can be found!
My guy is still using just as much and we both have a steady income with less risk and worry.

It is spring here daffodils are in flower and time to apply some N.

Put fertilizer spreader on this morning spinning disc mounted on 3point hitch.
Second load top link broke while working spreader fell backwards bending discs and vanes PTO snapped and bent shaft in gear box. Parts will cost more than machine worth.

Just a bit more personal pain but good news for a machinery salesman!

Good job we love what we do.

[TOM4CWB]

Ianben;

The straw we produced only was 20% of normal... it was low quality and tough... all around a disaster for all involved...

even though it cost us twice what it usually does to produce the straw this year... we charged the same price as the last few years...

We did get other farmers to supply some more straw to help fill the shortfall... but overall it was not a good situation!

Our Mushroom farm did find enough to make it through to next year... and we planted 500 ac of winter wheat to get as early straw production as possible for next season...

Farming is a challenge no doubt about it!

[henbent]

TOM4CWB, I have not been brainwashed by the CWB, I just don't happen to agree with your fanatical approach to these issues. Changes have been made and are being made at the CWB. Admin costs have come down. If you think that you are subsidizing my farm, I can assure you that your share and more is coming back through the Income Tax that we pay!!

[TOM4CWB]

Henbent;

I do not understand how your paying income tax compensates me for the $40/t extra basis charge the CWB monopoly just extracted from my farm... when the CWB promised they would only charge me actual costs on this contract!

Further... the smoke and mirror CWB Administrative charges have increased each year... many times more if done on a per tonne base.

THe CWB trys to fool you be counting the net interest earnings on billions of dollars of bad debt.

Since this bad debt is VERY unlikely to ever be paid off... all the CWB is doing through this churning of bad debt, is increasing the amount owed by the CWB debtor nations... plus the transaction fees for doing all this debt churning... going to brokers and bankers.... all to have you believe the CWB is doing something useful and productive... when in fact all the CWB is adding debt to my childern's account.... that the next generation of Canadians must pay off!

I call this fraud carried out upon my childern's generation... in the name of deception and government expediency...

I don't know if you even care to understand what this is all about... but if you do... maybe you should look into the truth of what is actually happening down at the CWB... Mr. Earl Geddes admitted that the accumulated borrowings for the 2001-02 crop year... done by the CWB... stated at Mr. Jim Chatenay's CWB Accountability Meeting on March 3rd... was some 79 billion dollars... yes the is Billion with a B... on business conducted of approx. 3.5 Billion through the CWB sales of grain.

Now if you borrowed 20 times your total gross earnings each year... wouldn't your bankers be very happy... and wouldn't you agree something very deceptive and screwey was going on?

[henbent]

TOM4CWB, Hey listen to this, I don't owe you or your pals anything, ANYTHING, let alone billions upon billions of dollars. You must be one heck of a producer/marketer to suggest such a silly thing.

There are some good news articles on the CWB at the Western Producer website MAR 13 Volume 81 edition; www.producer.com

[parsley]

Henbent,

You believe, "Changes have been made and are being made at the CWB. Admin costs have come down."

Expenses need to come down a lot more, because legally, they must.

Lets talk about how the CWB lies to farmers. I haven't forgotten, henbent.

The CWB has been taking money out of the West's pooling accounts to pay for the CWB's licensing costs across Canada.

Not only do Prairie farmers pay for the big corporations' licensing costs and for all the other farmers in the other provinces, but they also pay licensing costs for the accredited agents of the Board.

All the costs associated with Licensing responsibilities are LEGISLATIVELY, supposed to be paid by the Federal Government out of the Revenue Consolidated Fund, including the cost of licensing in the Designated Area. The CWB ignores their own act.

Does the CWB know this? Yes they do. Does the Minister of the CWB know this? Yes he does.

What does the CWB tell farmers when asked who is supposed to pay these Licensing costs associated with Part IV?

Initially, the CWB refused to even acknowledge that the Government, according to the CWB Act, was supposed to pick up the licensing bill. Then the CWB began admitting the bill would be VERY small.. not worth worrying about....then they told farmers they were looking into it...then they told farmers it would be approximately $10K worth of expenses ....then one of the Directors..Michael Halyk... stated publically that the expenses were actually supposed to be paid by the Federal Government...then the CWB upped the yearly licensing expenses to $100K....and on and on

They are liars.

Minister Goodale knows what they have been doing is against the law and Alberta Director Jim Chatenay wrote him a letter stating that mmoney was being taken from Prairie farmers pooling accounts to pay licensing costs and this was alleged, by farmers in District #2, to be an illegal action..

Goodale is "looking into" this.

If Goodale doesn't do something about it soon, the penalty he could pay is described under
PART IV-OFFENSES AGAINST ADMIN. OF LAW AND JUSTICE, titled

Quote

"DISOBEYING A STATUTE/

126. (i) Ever one who, without lawful excuse, contravenes an Act of Parliament by wilfully doing anything that it forbids or by wilfully omitting to do anything that it requires to be done, unless a punishment is expressly provided by law, guilty of an indictable offense and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years."

UNQUOTE

The Wheat Board and the Minister really should start paying attention to farmers and start telling them the truth. A good way to make ammends would be to quit stealing out of the pooling accounts.

Parsley

[TOM4CWB]

Henbent;

I was a CWB supporter... and believed they were good for my farm.

When I found out the true situation... at the same time Commissioner Mr. Ken Beswick... God rest his soul... shortly thereafter resigned from the CWB... because of the problems we are now exposeing on these treads.

I cannot make what the CWB has done go away... and I am not asking you to pay me anything... or saying that you personally owe my farm or family anything... except... to honestly discover what is and has happened... with an open mind...

I did not want to believe there was a problem at the CWB either... unfortunately I could not ignore the facts that I discovered... and it is my responsibility to expose whatever problems there are... so that the CWB can be fixed... before it is too late...

[henbent]

TOM4CWB, If we share these common concerns and want to continue to see the CWB evolve. Why make such an outrageous statement as, "Shouldn't the CWB Go to Jail"? Their work and intent is not criminal in nature. There are programs that need and will change. Give the farm directors some time and credit. I trust that the programs and policies that have/are being formulated will help, not enslave farmers, evil is not on the agenda at the CWB. The one constant in our world is change.

[TOM4CWB]

Henbent;

WHat causes change?

93% of what we do is habit.

If we are not forced to change what we have been doing... we do not change.

The CWB is no different.

Unfortunately the CWB management in the end will understand one thing... that they use force and Jailing of farmers to ensure the habits of the CWB... in the end the same judgement will come back on the CWB... judge not lest you be judged... and when CDN. gov. Justice and Finance Dept management changes... then much will come back to rest at the CWB's door... if that be Minister Goodale or CWB management... someone will be responsible for what has happened.

The Jail issue is done with the CWB's best interests... cause if these folks don't understand what is happening... it is high time they exactly understand where many farmers thing they ought to be... IN JAIL.

Perhaps the CWBers will be smart enough to change... stopping what could happen...if they do not proactively change.

[henbent]

parsley, You have been a busy bee during the past few days! However your attempt to discredit and besmirch Minister Goodale and the CWB, by branding them as thieves will not work. Minister Goodale is an honest hard working fellow and the public record shows that he is the go-too guy when the Fed Gov't gets into trouble. You have said that he and the CWB are stealing from pool accts, committing theft. Wrong, In R. v. O'MAHONEY, (1966)2CCC.264,47CR22,53WWR 698 in this case the accused was personally responsible for shortages in accounts. Some shortages he made up by switching funds from one account to the other, but the ultimate deficiency he always made up from his own pocket. It was held that the he did not have an intent to commit theft. Colour of right and mens rea (guilty mind) are essential to prove theft, or stealing. I do not believe that Minister Goodale would knowingly perpetrate such a despicable act as you describe.