Vanclief's fantasyland

[TOM4CWB]

Ian.

Profit is a strong incentive to produce!

100 million acres of reserve land is a huge resource such that Brazilian farmers can bury the rest of us in beans and corn!

I certainly hope this does not happen, but ignoring reality never constructively solves any problem!

[TOM4CWB]

Chas and Ian,

Have a look for yourself on the Brazil situation!

http://www.agweek.com/docs/0725/0725ellison.htm

[ianben]

Hi Tom
Thanks, I looked up the site. A bit scarry I agree, but why are they doing this. Look at the second paragragh.

More than 15 years have passed since his father, a penniless pre-World War II immigrant from Japan who first planted soybeans in 1948, last increased those holdings. But with world soybean prices at a 30-year low, he and his brother need the cash flow and improved economies of scale.

Sounds to me like they have the same problems over there too. Crazy low prices!!!
Doesn,t look like they would be expanding if prices were higher, they haven't in last 15 years and I presume land has always been there.

Who sets these prices?

You say the "markets" you cannot interfere with supply and demand.

I wonder why not?

NONE of us producers are making money at todays prices so why do we keep selling??

I thought Canadians could produce canola at £140 atonne del Liverpool and make a profit. That is what my buyer infers when I try for a better price.
You tell me you really need $8/bushel that would be over £200 in Liverpool.

A price I would be equally happy with.
What would those Brazillian guys be doing at these prices?

Did you notice those comsuption figures up 20million tonnes/yr.

Production was up 27 million I know, but in percentage terms 7 million is small.

Just a few tonnes each in the lean year bin.

Can we not try to change a system which is wrecking farmers lives and rural comunities through out the world.
Are we going to bury our heads in the sand and be ploughed in.

We are all in the same boat lets at least try paddling.

WE ALL NEED HIGHER PRICES!!!

Regards Ian

[TOM4CWB]

Ian,

I am the last one to object to a "fair" price for anyone's grain!!!

The problem is that this is a totally relative term, and if prices are held up artificially, someone will start producing much more, and then we have a glut and oversupply that makes us in worse shape than we started at!!!!

So supply control is important once a higher price is attained.

Now how do we get the wisdom of Joseph, when we don't know what the weather is going to be like 3 weeks from today let alone 3 years!!!

Guessing when higher prices will come is near imposible!

Projecting the efficiencies of production is almost as hard to project 3 years into the future!

What I am saying is that as transparent and open a selling system as possible, is in the best interests of everyone.

Now if I was greedy I would say from a selfish point of view that I don't want Brits or Ausies hedging on Winnepeg Canola!

But this is short sighted as when Canola sellers use the exchange then buyers can see its prices are reliable, and are more likely to step up and use it as well.

This promotes efficient transparency, and pure speculators will end up over the long term getting wiped out, if they are distorting the market place!

I know this sounds like a broken record, but until we can assure future production levels, controling supply and demand will place us in the position of stepping in front of a freight train that will not stop!

[chas]

Tom4cwb: I'am not refusing to accept the value of our product by supply and demand. Iam' not happy with the mechanism in are marketing system that allows for easy manipulation of supply fiquires. For example a spectulator can buy or sell large amounts of grain on paper for a mere 10% of its value and turn around in the future and reverse the trade for a mere fee. When there is no delivery of the product and no storage to worry about large speculators can manipulate the market to their advantage. Large companies who are intergrated into food industry are controlling the low price.
Government subsidises are for the benefit of large companies not farmers because they work to keep a large supply of the perferred product at a low price. This allows large corportations to add value to make a large profit.
Supply and demand is the only fair way to discover price but lets make the mechanism of supply and demand procedures fair and honest. Chas

[TOM4CWB]

Chas,

The speculators may appear to have a low cost ride, however, when they are wrong, they have to pay up big time!!!

THis is the time when if we are patient, we can farm them for 50 cents a bu!!!

No one knows what the weather is going to do, and the weather determines supply, which in turn is half the input into the price.

Now low prices increase demand, which is to our benefit when the supply is reduced.

Then substitution comes into the picture when the prices of our products are out of kilter with other products.

This is why we have to be careful we don't shoot ourselves in the foot. Many times once a customer swithches to another product, they are slow to switch back, and then our product developes into a surplus more quickely than it would normally.

I believe in 1996 this is what happened with wheat.

The CWB withdrew from the market in the spring and early summer, particularly on new crop wheat.

The CWB was banking on higher prices and seriously had to slash prices to get back into the market later that fall.

Once we make our customers mad by refusing to sell, hold them ransom, they are very slow to come back to us after they find an alternate supply.

This is why restricting supply by means of a cartel can end up being counterproductive in the long term.

But what do I know, I am just a dumb farmer!

It is good to talk and discuss these issues and work them through, it helps us to become "master marketers"!!!

[melvill]

Very quick input. This is a great debate. I've always maintained that debates are a great way to learn something new. Keep up the good work.

I'm going to watch for the most effective presenter and recruit him/her to help me persuade more of my clients to work on becoming "astute" marketers this coming winter. ;-)

Tom4cwb I like your phrase "master marketer". May I borrow it?

Lee

[TOM4CWB]

Lee,

The term "master marketer" is a really interesting one, particularily when any one of us can be humbled so quickly!!!

Marketing is a state of mind, and the principal of doing unto others as you would have done unto yourself is the principal to start being humbled!!

I am in particular thinking of the customers I sell to, when I say this.

This is why I enjoy growing Canola, I can get really close to the end user and consumer when selling my Canola.

The interference of brokers can be weeded out particularily when dealing with Co-operative owned value added processors!!!

It is an unforgivable sin that has occured, that in the Wheat Industry we have to the greatest extent cut out the domestic value added Co-operative millers. How could this happen in Canada, with our Co-operative spirit and all?

[ianben]

Hi Everyone
Starting again under Fantasyland 2