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    KAP's Questions

    I read the KAP questionnaire and backgrounder and I will try to attempt to answer the first two questions. (I will look past the obvious, that this is another CWB prepared document)

    Question 1. When You market your crops throughout the crop year will you be able to obtain premium prices from an open market?

    Yes. As I understand what premium prices are to me. Last Jan. I sold 20000 bushels of feed barley FOB farmyard. I received $2.10/bu for the first 10000 bushels and then $2.20/bu for the next 10000. This price was at least $.35 to $.45 per bushel better than the elevator companies offers at the time. This was sold to a colony that saw my sample and wanted my barley. So yes premium prices will continue to be available.

    But this question had to come out of the mind of a cwb staffer.

    It’s not a question a real farmer would ask.

    A real farmer would ask, “Am I still going to be able to sell my wheat and make money in an open market?” or Am I going to make more money or less money selling wheat in an open market than I do today with the cwb?

    My answer to that is I know I will make more money. On winter wheat alone I will make at minimum a third as much more from the open market than the cwb system. On CWRS, I know the basis will be much more attractive in a competitive system, the ability to grow higher yielding varieties will make me more money. Earlier I posted the results from the North Dakota yield trials. Superb was one of the lowest yielders compared to say Glenn. I think there was about a 12 bushel to the acre difference. So If I think I will gain about $15/t on basis with a 12 bushel yield advantage by accessing superior varieties I’m probably increasing the profitability of wheat in my rotation by $80 and acre. That’s what a real farmer will consider. I think on winter wheat the number would be closer to $100/acre increase in profitability.

    Question 2. Has price pooling been an important risk management tool for your farm? Without a single desk, is price pooling still viable? For me No price pooling is not something that has appealed to me, but that is in the context of how the cwb has price pooled. But maybe it might look more attractive if I thought the costs associated with pooling were substantially less and the pool could actually prove by way of a competitive price to be a viable option. So in my mind the viability of price pooling is in the ability of the CWB II to contain its costs and try to achieve a high average price. But that’s just my viewpoint others may be happy just so long as there is a professional third party that they can rely on to market their grain for them.

    I will try to address some of the other questions later (or maybe not)

    #2
    Adam Smith, do you think these are really KAP's questions? I mean, given recent collusion with the CWB, can we really trust KAP? And furthermore, is the year 1970 or 1996 or what? What the KAP questions ask were being asked for the last 35 years or more! The Western Grain Marketing Panel, travelling Senate roadshows, et al, have asked all these questions in one form or another. And, it is all irrelevant.

    Premium prices mean nothing if cash flow demands are high in fall and premium prices don't appear till . . .? Cash flow for me is king. The CWB system has never satisfied my cash requirements or many others. This one of the reasons wheat and barley are disappearing from crop rotations; they don't flow enough cash fast enough.

    Re price pooling: it can be good option if done differently. I grow forage seed from time to time that is price pooled. But, with a guaranteed basis most of the value of the seed is paid upon delivery to the customer. After all the returns are in for let's say turf seed, a final pool calculation is made and final returns are paid out. The thing is, going in, you know you will receive pretty well the full price early. The final payment more or less represents any premium.

    Comment


      #3
      Trust no one , that's the common thread to these comments.

      Comment


        #4
        Agstar77, trust has to be earned. KAP has a long ways to go to earn my trust back. Sending David Rolfe packing would only be a start.

        As far as the CWB, the lack of accountability, using what should be farmers returns to fight to retain the monopoly, quashing my right to sell my produce to whom or when I wish . . .

        Trust? I trust the open market partners I work with. They know if they don't act in a "trusting" manner and with a win/win attitude, I'll take my business somewhere else. But, I have responsibilities too. Pricing opportunites come and go, and if they are not captured that's my fault, not a company that buys and resells commodities.

        Comment


          #5
          Agstar – it’s ironic that you should be the one to mention trust. You trust the CWB yet they have never earned it. You vilify the evil grain companies as untrustworthy bandits yet they work to earn your trust every day – even when handling CWB grains; without farmers’ trust, they suffer (look what happened to SWP’s market share when they shut down all their wooden elevators).

          I guess it’s consistent with trusting KAP and others that are fed rhetoric by the CWB. Unfortunate....blind....yet consistent.

          Comment


            #6
            Agstar77, if the cwb wants to win over the trust of enough farmers to prevent the government from implimenting their marketing choice policy. The CWB is going to have to prove themselves. And mocking trust is not the way to do it.Making public the 2005/2006 sales book along with a breakdown of all cwb costs may save you, if it's as good as you say it is. But the fact the cwb won't do this, even with their entire existance hanging in the balance, just makes me think that that information would be more damaging to the cwb than benificial.

            Answering questions and presenting corresponding evidence to all cwb claims of superiority is required.

            Open market proponents are not afraid to answer the cwb's (KAP's) questions yet the cwb is terrified by and refuses to, answer our questions.

            Why do you suppose that is?

            Give us the raw data, and let us draw our conlusions.

            A non peer reviewed study, using filtered and selective data in order to reach a predetermined outcome is not going to satisfy anyone other than the cwb's hard core committed supporters.

            As Dr. Phil say's "It's time for you to get real"

            Comment


              #7
              It seems its a matter of trust. You say trust me , we can destroy the present system and some of us will be better off. You don't have any more proof than what you are asking the other side to provide. I really don't think the risk reward is worth it. It may be for you but not for all of us .

              Comment


                #8
                Agstar – I don’t care if you trust me or not; I don’t contribute here to get you to agree with me or to trust me. Just don’t ask me to blindly trust the unknown as you do.

                Don’t tell me I don’t have proof. I have a provided a load of evidence that counters CWB claims that it has succeeded (I've got more if you want); a whole schwack of stuff showing that the CWB isn’t doing as good a job as you’d like to believe. All we’re asking is for answers and explanations. As I see it, the one thing the CWB has going for it is that the “court of public opinion” (the farm community) isn’t paying attention to details.

                Why is it that, whenever open-marketers show real numbers, real facts, and real experiences that are critical of the CWB, the Canadian Wheat Borg never counters with opposing real numbers, real facts, real experiences that support the CWB? You know, proof, supporting your positions. Not just platitudes and rhetoric supporting your position and criticisms of your detractors.

                Before you can assess risk/reward, you need to measure the risk and the reward – you choose to do neither but continue to criticize those that do or try to. How can you say the risk reward is not worth it to you when you really don’t know what the risk or the reward is?

                As I said before, blind faith doesn’t cut it when you’re dealing with other peoples’ lives.

                Comment


                  #9
                  So I can try to understand this:

                  Neither side has concrete proof.

                  Therefore the single desk system should be maintained for the good of whom?

                  You and your friends?

                  Without concrete proof, what is different in this approach to AdamSmith's?

                  To make a statement like: "I really don't think the risk reward is worth it." - is what i do not get.

                  With risk on one side of a blank piece of paper and reward on the other - and the paper blank - you are drawing conclusions based on nothing.
                  ______________________________________
                  A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven.
                  Jean Chretien - March 01, 1995
                  _______________________________________

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Agstar77, Here's my proof, now let's see yours!

                    Or is this just opinion?

                    To me it's proof that Winter Wheat and Red Spring Wheat are equivalent value and the open market reflects that. It's also proof I'm losing $1 to 1.25 per bushel on winter wheat with the single desk system.

                    What exactly is the risk here? Paying to much income tax?

                    JO GR110
                    Portland, OR Mon Nov 6 2006 USDA Market News

                    Portland Daily Grain Report
                    Bids as of 11:30 a.m.; Subject to change

                    Bids for grains delivered to Portland, Oregon. During November by
                    rail or barge, in dollars per bushel, except oats, corn and barley,
                    in dollars per cwt. Bids for 11.5 percent protein hard red winter
                    wheat and 14 percent protein dark northern spring wheat were split for
                    first and last half November delivery. Bids for soft white wheat are
                    for delivery periods as specified. All other bids are for full
                    November delivery.

                    December wheat futures closed higher by four to 6-3/4 cents per
                    bushel compared to Friday’s closes.

                    Bids for US 1 Soft White Wheat for November Portland delivery were
                    mixed, from three cents per bushel lower to one cent higher compared to
                    Friday’s noon bids.

                    Bids for 11.5 percent protein US 1 Hard Red Winter Wheat for
                    November Portland delivery were one to mostly four cents per bushel
                    higher than Friday’s noon bids in following the higher Kansas City
                    December wheat futures.

                    Bids for 14 percent protein us 1 Dark Northern Spring Wheat for
                    November Portland delivery trended mixed, from seven cents lower to
                    seven cents higher compared to Friday’s noon bids.

                    Bids for US 2 barley were not well tested. Most exporters were not
                    issuing bids for November delivery.

                    Bids for US 2 Yellow Corn were not well tested.

                    US 1 Soft White Wheat - Any protein - Rail/Barge delivered
                    Nov mostly $ 4.99 , ranging $4.92 -5.00 dn 3-up 1
                    FH Dec $4.98 -5.03 unch
                    LH Dec $4.99 -5.06 unch-up 1
                    FH Jan $5.02 -5.08 unch
                    LH Jan $5.03 -5.10 unch-up 1
                    FH Feb $5.06 -5.11 up 1-unch
                    LH Feb $5.06 -5.12 unch
                    FH Mar $5.08 -5.13 up 1-dn 1
                    LH Mar $5.08 -5.14 unch-dn 1

                    US 1 White Club Wheat - Rail/Barge delivered
                    Nov mostly $ 5.14 , ranging $4.95 -5.17 unch

                    US 1 Hard Red Winter Wheat - (Exporter bids-falling numbers of 300 or
                    better)
                    Ordinary protein mostly $ 5.67 , ranging $5.52 -5.68 up 1-up 5
                    10 pct protein mostly $ 5.67 , ranging $5.52 -5.68 up 1-up 5
                    11 pct protein $5.62 -5.77 up 1-up 4
                    11.5 pct protein
                    FH Nov mostly $ 5.73 , ranging $5.67 -5.82 up 1-up 4
                    LH Nov mostly $ 5.76 , ranging $5.72 -5.82 up 4
                    12 pct protein $5.67 -5.82 up 1-up 4
                    13 pct protein mostly $ 5.87 , ranging $5.81 -5.87 up 6-up 4
                    13 pct protein - $5.81 -5.87 up 6-up 4
                    Milling Quality Montana Origin

                    US 1 Dark Northern Spring Wheat (with a minimum of 300 falling numbers, a maximum
                    of 0.5 part per million vomitoxin, and a maximum of one percent total damage)
                    12 pct protein $5.61 -5.85 dn 7-up 7
                    13 pct protein $5.69 -5.93 dn 7-up 7
                    14 pct protein
                    FH Nov mostly $ 5.95 , ranging $5.77 -6.01 dn 7-up 7
                    LH Nov mostly $ 5.95 , ranging $5.78 -6.01 dn 7-up 7
                    15 pct protein $5.79 -6.03 dn 7-up 7
                    Guaranteed 15 pct protein NA

                    US 2 Barley
                    Unit trains & Barges-export (45 lbs.) NA
                    Merchandiser Bids-Single rail cars-domestic (48 lbs. or better)
                    Delivered to Portland NA
                    Delivered to inland feeding areas NA
                    FOB inland Country Elevators NA

                    US 2 Yellow Corn
                    Domestic-single rail cars
                    Delivered full coast-BN NA
                    Delivered to Portland NA
                    Rail and Truck del to Willamette Vly NA
                    Rail del to Yakima Valley NA
                    Truck del to Yakima Valley NA

                    US 2 Heavy White Oats $7.0000 unch

                    Exporter offers on Friday night for January shipment FOB shipped in
                    dollars per bushel:

                    US 2 or btr Soft White Wheat $ 5.06 unch
                    US 2 or btr Western White Wheat $ 5.11 unch
                    US 2 or btr Hard Red Winter Wheat, ord.% $ 5.83 unch
                    US 2 or btr Hard Red Winter Wheat, 11.5% $ 5.87 unch
                    US 2 or btr Hard Red Winter Wheat, 13% $ 6.05 unch
                    US 2 or btr Northern Spring Wheat, 13% $ 5.98 up 2
                    US 2 or btr Dk Northern Spring Wheat, 14% $ 6.02 up 2
                    US 2 or btr Northern Spring Wheat, 14.5% $ 6.05 up 2
                    US 2 Barley NA no comp
                    US 3 Yellow Corn NA no comp

                    Exporter Bids Portland Rail/Barge October 2006
                    Averages in Dollars per bushel

                    No. 1 Soft White $4.97
                    No. 1 Hard Red Winter (Ordinary protein) $5.56
                    No. 1 Hard Red Winter (11.5% protein) $5.71
                    No. 1 Dark Northern Spring (14% protein) $5.80
                    No. 2 Barley $NA

                    Source: USDA Market News Service, Portland, OR
                    Martha Hansen (503) 326-2237
                    24 hour price information: (503) 326-2022
                    www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/jo gr110.txt

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I suppose this is just opinion too!

                      On the basis;

                      On Oct 13 I did a basis contract for 18000 bushels basis was 7.91/t over with a deposit to the pool acount (Adjustment factor) of 5.75/t for a basis of $2.16/t or 6 cents a bushel over Minn. I also pay $55/t in freight and elevation.


                      If you notice below Cash bids in Minn were 28 cents over December.

                      Bottineau ND Wheat was bid at 60 cents under Dec Minn. (68cents C$)

                      My Price was $1.44 C$ under.

                      I'm losing 76 cents on basis (the cost of our system) or$28/t (Oh my gawd, it's worse than I thought)


                      MS_GR115
                      Minneapolis, MN Thu Nov 02, 2006 USDA Market News

                      Minneapolis Weekly Grain Summary

                      Prices for the week ending Thursday, November 02, 2006

                      The Milling Spring Wheat cash market was slightly higher. Movement was very
                      light this past week as farmers were more concerned with their row crop harvest
                      than marketing their spring wheat. There has been an increase in trading of
                      Hard Red Winter wheat on the spot floor this crop season.

                      Exports: Of the Wheat, there were 601,440 metric tons of Wheat confirmed.
                      Breakdown of the wheat is as follows: 446,140 metric tons of Hard Red Winter,
                      29,800 metric tons of Northern/Dark Northern Spring, 120,000 metric tons of
                      Soft White and 5,500 metric tons of Western White Wheat confirmed. Of the feed
                      grains, there were 252,000 metric tons of Corn and 68,206 metric tons of Sorghum
                      confirmed. There were no oilseed or feed ingredient exports confirmed. **These
                      may not be the only export sales that have transpired this past week; however,
                      they are the only sales that could be confirmed by USDA Grain Market News.**

                      Spring Wheat: Prices are for US 1 Dark Northern Spring Wheat with less
                      than 2.0 pct Vomitoxin. The 14 pct protein Spring Wheat was 1 3/4 to 6 3/4 cents
                      higher from 5.43 1/2-5.48 1/2, the basis was 5 to 10 cents higher from 40-45
                      cents over the Dec futures. Hard Red Winter Wheat 12 pct protein had no quote
                      on the spot market; the 20 day to-arrive bid was 6 3/4 cents higher at 5.31 1/2,
                      the basis was 10 cents higher at 28 cents over the Dec futures.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Agstar77, this may not constitute proof to you, but this is information that is readily available to any farmer who cares to spend 2 minutes on the internet.

                        Just go to www.mgex.com/cash_markets.html

                        Stacked up against what real data the cwb puts out (which is nothing)about current sales numbers and prices. I'll go with this until I see something concrete from the cwb.

                        Agstar77, Basis is the costs to move grain from the interior to the end user or export position. And the numers I've shown above show the true cost of the cwb monopoly system to farmers.

                        These numbers are pretty overwhelming and I'm sure by the time this political exercise is over, every farmer in western Canada will be shown these numbers and what they truly mean.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Just a note the historical prices have been updated on the CWB web site. I direct everyones attention to the CWRW DPC versus FPC/PRO chart. The CWB own pricing would support the comments craig, AdamSmith, et al have been describing.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            AS, all this is based on the assumption that you could sell all your grain into this market . If you could sell it what effect would it have on that market? We could sit here and debate the so-called greener grass on the other side of the fence but in the end it is all a academic debate. As far as I can see American farmers are going out of business just as quickly as we are even with their superior system. You may be right that some of us will be better off with the system you propose and I don't dispute your numbers , but I don't believe most farmers will be better off with system you propose JMHO. Oh and by the way I have not said I don't trust the Multi-nationals, I just don't believe we can put all our faith in the goodwill of their boardroom, since the will always look after their shareholders first, and I don't have a problem with that.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Agstar77, you said "AS, all this is based on the assumption that you could sell all your grain into this market . If you could sell it what effect would it have on that market?"

                              What do you mean by "this market"?

                              This market is the world wheat market. The world wheat market is affected by 1000 different things that are dynamic and changing every day. Having 1000 new Adam Smith selling individually into this market will have next to zero impact on this world wheat market. Agstar77 it's all the same grain and the same amounts.

                              Yes there would be a new dynamic in Canada but that will not effect the overall supply/demand picture. The new open market dynamic will effect the way Canadian Wheat comes into the market and the open market will always accept the grain.

                              As far as what the basis levels might be with wheat from our grain companies, I guess I think a decent indicator of an open market wheat basis would be by looking at a combination of the current open market crops basis levels and those American Northern tier wheat basis levels which the open market wheat will arbitrage with.

                              I guess I don't understand why you believe that it will only be "some" farmers who will benifit, but "most" won't?

                              The open market will provide opportunity for all. Many new opportunities in fact.

                              And I believe a voluntary CWBII has a fit within the open market for those who may feel like you. We just need to see a "Can Do" attitude from that organization.

                              Comment

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