Let's Pretend

[cottonpicken]

I used the word wealth instead of money because they are two different things.
Who now owns the shares of farming companies.
Who now has there hands deep in farmers pockets.
Who created the environment of low prices so they could get shares cheaper and hands deeper.

[AdamSmith]

Ok, lets talk ownership. Is the fact Cargill and JRI and ADM own canola crushing plants in Sask. good or bad?

Some see outside investment as an intrusion or a pillaging of our wealth, I see it as a vote of confidence. As that outside investor has chosen to park his wealth in my community or province. He's saying he's willing to invest here instead of someplace else.

Why wouldn't you want someone else to spend and invest in our communities?

I recall watching a documentary on TV about the history of Chicago. Names and Dates escape me right now but anyway after the great fire in 18 somthing, half the city burned to the ground. Most of the city leaders at the time were sure that their city could never recover. But one fellow went to New York and convinced a bunch of the New York money guys to invest in rebuilding Chicago. At first many were opposed as they thought that New York would now control Chicago, but he convinced them that that wasn't the case, in fact instead of New York money staying in New York, New York money would now be coming to Chicago for the benifit of Chicago.

So I guess it's all in how you interperate others motives.

[wedino]

CP, "Who now owns the shares of farming companies."

I think it's fair to say, with regards to SWP anyway, that farmers weren't capable of operating the company. It's a fact that while farmers were in control the company was driven almost to bankruptcy.

[wedino]

Whenever anyone is making an argument for the wheat board they have to refer to the 1920's.How about the 21st century.Things have changed too much for an 90 year old argument to work anymore.Our forefathers also left us with the horse and buggy,which we put in a museum(just the buggy)and I think that is an appropriate place for the Socialist mindset.How could I own shares in the big grain/chemical companies without the marketplace(ie.TSX,DJIND.).I would probably invest in these companies if they were as profitable as suncor.

[cottonpicken]

Actually my line of thinking was if the price of grain is being manipulated down the entity which would greatly benefit are the banks.

[AdamSmith]

The banks? well you are correct that they do have a very large presence within agriculture. But I really doubt their intention was to drive farmers into bankruptcy.

I'm sure many farmers feel like the banks are running the show, but no one ever put a gun to someone’s head and said sign here.

Listen, I'm no great fan of some of the bean counters at the banks but I still think they are an over all good within the agricultural industry.

I had my own personal issue last year that made me want to strangle a couple of pointy headed ratio analyzers at the bank which I deal with. But I solved the problem by moving a big chunk of my business to another lending institution, which was much more accommodating.

That is what is so great about competition, when one try’s to screw you over; you just move on and deal with another one.

At the same time the same bank who tried to screw with me is again very accommodating.

The ability to take your business elsewhere is the greatest power lever farmers have Cottenpicken. That power lever is 100 times greater than anything else that could be concocted up by a bunch of mindless busybodies.

[cottonpicken]

This is your conspiracy theory.Who in your opinion benefits from the price suppression?Whats their motive?
If the cwb is screwing us over so badly there has to be a reason why.

[AdamSmith]

CP, let me be clear. I do not believe there is any conspiracy theory happening. What I do believe is that we have a system, system that has existed since 1943 or 1935 whichever you prefer. This system enables certain things to happen and prevents certain things from not happening. There is no grand scheme to screw people out of their money. It just happens because it can happen without any repercussions or ability to alter the outcomes.

When you have a system in which there is no real accountability and no levers to do business elsewhere, you gonna get suspicion and mistrust. That’s just natural. The left has laid many accusations at the door of the multi-nationals and the big life science companies but there is no law forcing anyone to deal with them. You can tell Monsanto to go jump in the lake if you want, last time I checked if I want to deal with someone other than the cwb, I risk going to jail.

This is pretty basic stuff CP, free enterprising individuals get this without to much difficulty. I don’t want to be rude here, because I guess I thought you were actually trying to sort all this out, but sometimes I’m not sure you understand the basic tenants behind free enterprise and free enterprise thought.

Google The invisible hand.

[cottonpicken]

Sorry adam i guess i misinterpreted a few of your statements like-"Why did farmers still support the cwb even after they saw it kept prices down"
If you were talking about gross incompitance all along i wish i would have picked up on it sooner it would have saved me alot of posting time.

Does everyone else see it the same way?

As far as trying to understand-i'm always trying to understand-everything.But my thoughts an ideas are fluid constantly changing and evolving.Some may call this weak but at least i've never been caught in a mental rut where my views are dead wrong and i'm incapable of adapting to the ever changing world around me.Einstein said the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

As far as free entrprize and thought-i would say i know something.
As far as what you dont know-anything about the markets.

One question i'm dying for you to answer is on the word monopoly.Gross incompetince aside,do you not understand the value of being apart of a monopoly?Are the opec producers incompetent?This is about the tenth time in three years ive asked this question and it never gets a DIRECT ANSWER.

One more thing if we lose all are seed rights to all our seed how would you view monsanto(who opened the door)?

[AdamSmith]

CP, my wife has told me I'm spending too much time on Agriville, I have to agree with her, but I will try to respond to your monopoly question.

The first thing you have to ask yourself is this; What does the Canadian Wheat Board have a monopoly in?

Well it’s not in selling wheat, there are hundreds of other sellers around the world, right.

Is it selling wheat in Canada? Nope. Any Canadian miller or maltster can import American wheat or wheat from anywhere else around the world, right.

The only monopoly they have isn’t even a monopoly it’s called a monopsony. The CWB is the only buyer of wheat for export or domestic human consumption within the designated area. So the cwb can’t set the price on anything because any buyer anywhere has alternatives. So as far as monopoly strength, the cwb doesn’t have it. It only has the power to restrict competitive buying of western canadian wheat. In that light, farmers lose way too much and gain precious little.

As far as knowing anything about markets, I do know enough to know I don’t know enough to say with any degree of certainty what’s going to happen from one day to the next. And I found that out the very hard way. So when I cautioned you before about the pain of being so sure of a market move and then having the market make a fool of you, I am speaking of personal experience. I vowed to never let that happen to me again.