Let's Pretend

[AdamSmith]

The banks? well you are correct that they do have a very large presence within agriculture. But I really doubt their intention was to drive farmers into bankruptcy.

I'm sure many farmers feel like the banks are running the show, but no one ever put a gun to someone’s head and said sign here.

Listen, I'm no great fan of some of the bean counters at the banks but I still think they are an over all good within the agricultural industry.

I had my own personal issue last year that made me want to strangle a couple of pointy headed ratio analyzers at the bank which I deal with. But I solved the problem by moving a big chunk of my business to another lending institution, which was much more accommodating.

That is what is so great about competition, when one try’s to screw you over; you just move on and deal with another one.

At the same time the same bank who tried to screw with me is again very accommodating.

The ability to take your business elsewhere is the greatest power lever farmers have Cottenpicken. That power lever is 100 times greater than anything else that could be concocted up by a bunch of mindless busybodies.

[cottonpicken]

This is your conspiracy theory.Who in your opinion benefits from the price suppression?Whats their motive?
If the cwb is screwing us over so badly there has to be a reason why.

[AdamSmith]

CP, let me be clear. I do not believe there is any conspiracy theory happening. What I do believe is that we have a system, system that has existed since 1943 or 1935 whichever you prefer. This system enables certain things to happen and prevents certain things from not happening. There is no grand scheme to screw people out of their money. It just happens because it can happen without any repercussions or ability to alter the outcomes.

When you have a system in which there is no real accountability and no levers to do business elsewhere, you gonna get suspicion and mistrust. That’s just natural. The left has laid many accusations at the door of the multi-nationals and the big life science companies but there is no law forcing anyone to deal with them. You can tell Monsanto to go jump in the lake if you want, last time I checked if I want to deal with someone other than the cwb, I risk going to jail.

This is pretty basic stuff CP, free enterprising individuals get this without to much difficulty. I don’t want to be rude here, because I guess I thought you were actually trying to sort all this out, but sometimes I’m not sure you understand the basic tenants behind free enterprise and free enterprise thought.

Google The invisible hand.

[cottonpicken]

Sorry adam i guess i misinterpreted a few of your statements like-"Why did farmers still support the cwb even after they saw it kept prices down"
If you were talking about gross incompitance all along i wish i would have picked up on it sooner it would have saved me alot of posting time.

Does everyone else see it the same way?

As far as trying to understand-i'm always trying to understand-everything.But my thoughts an ideas are fluid constantly changing and evolving.Some may call this weak but at least i've never been caught in a mental rut where my views are dead wrong and i'm incapable of adapting to the ever changing world around me.Einstein said the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

As far as free entrprize and thought-i would say i know something.
As far as what you dont know-anything about the markets.

One question i'm dying for you to answer is on the word monopoly.Gross incompetince aside,do you not understand the value of being apart of a monopoly?Are the opec producers incompetent?This is about the tenth time in three years ive asked this question and it never gets a DIRECT ANSWER.

One more thing if we lose all are seed rights to all our seed how would you view monsanto(who opened the door)?

[AdamSmith]

CP, my wife has told me I'm spending too much time on Agriville, I have to agree with her, but I will try to respond to your monopoly question.

The first thing you have to ask yourself is this; What does the Canadian Wheat Board have a monopoly in?

Well it’s not in selling wheat, there are hundreds of other sellers around the world, right.

Is it selling wheat in Canada? Nope. Any Canadian miller or maltster can import American wheat or wheat from anywhere else around the world, right.

The only monopoly they have isn’t even a monopoly it’s called a monopsony. The CWB is the only buyer of wheat for export or domestic human consumption within the designated area. So the cwb can’t set the price on anything because any buyer anywhere has alternatives. So as far as monopoly strength, the cwb doesn’t have it. It only has the power to restrict competitive buying of western canadian wheat. In that light, farmers lose way too much and gain precious little.

As far as knowing anything about markets, I do know enough to know I don’t know enough to say with any degree of certainty what’s going to happen from one day to the next. And I found that out the very hard way. So when I cautioned you before about the pain of being so sure of a market move and then having the market make a fool of you, I am speaking of personal experience. I vowed to never let that happen to me again.

[cottonpicken]

Heh,my wive thinks i'm an internet addict too.
Make sure you stay far enough away from the screen and away from your tower,those emf's are not good for you.
As far as monopolies opec is not a complete monopoly.I said right from the outset that everybody deserves the choice of what to do with their product but monopolies are monopolies.

Whether or not i "know" the markets time will tell,but my batting record for the past three years is more than Ok.I dont really remember anyone else posting their predictions or rational arguements to go along with them.
Its not for everyone, everybody is good at something and nobody at everything.

[northfarmer]

good explanation of the fact that the CWB acts as a monopsony.....no use even comparing it to OPEC, they act to attempt to control export volumes of oil(because of the sheer volume of oil controlled by members), and by doing so establish price that at times results in higher revenues......

the fear monger use of the word monopoly in defence of the inefficent market theory, which by the way is often rooted in there inherent lack of trust for free market theory and their own left leaning political ideologies.....

i am not sure what you mean on the seed issue CP, there are rather a large number of plant breeding entities globally, both conventional methods and biotech and over many crop platforms, with companies like Monsanto Bayer and Syngenta and also many different government and academic driven groups......the point is in the case of these companies/varieties or crops we ultimately have the choice as to what products and seeds we buy/grow and in some cases whcih strategy we want to directly invest in.....there is nothing nearing monopoly control over the seed market even though there are many that progogate this fear....


my wife too thinks i spend far too much time on agriville, but is probably one of the best forums for opinions, agree or not, on my passion which ia agriculture, economics, and politics...never mind the pure entertainment value of some of the interchanges