Agstar's Answer

[Kodiak]

Agstar, you didn't answer in the other thread. I thought I'd start a new one. I hope you respond this time so that maybe we can all focus on your ideas and understand the reasoning behind your positions.

We all need to understand your mindset.

When it comes to doing business as a farmer, specifically when it comes to buying our inputs or selling our production through a cooperative approach, do you believe in:

A. Voluntary participation
B. Forced participation

If you would, please briefly elaborate on your answer. If you can give proven examples of where it has worked better (than the alternative) for everyone in the cooperative, that would be helpful.

[agstar77]

Maybe in you should ask the Dairy farmers or the egg producers, that question. Ask if they want to give up there marketing control.

[just_wondering]

I'll pick dairy farmers in New Zealand
Off the gov't teat, Kicking A__ and taking names all over the Dairy world.

[silverback]

still didn't answer the pretty simple question.

If that is supposed to be an answer, how do you propose instituting supply management for the grain industry?

I am pretty sure they will lay criminal charges against people that don't want to adhere to the quota system also.

I seem to be detecting a theme here...

[tower]

Themes, like democracy working, unless it isn't doing what you think it should and then of course it isn't working.

Just out of curiousity how would democracy work in Kodiaks little world? would there ever be a need to force anyone to adhere to the laws of the land?

[Kodiak]

We might get there eventually.

Maybe to get the discussion going - Agstar, would there be a difference between the established dairy and egg producers on one hand, and people wanting to get into the business on the other? I'm thinking especially of young people, probably without a lot of capital, but with ambition, knowledge, and a desire to produce high value food products.

And just a quick, simple second question - Do you think existing poultry and dairy producers need the system they have, and if so, is it because of capitalized rights to be in the business?

[agstar77]

If the test is ,are they prosperous, seems to work for them.

[Kodiak]

Tower,

I don't want to ignore your question. I have a fairly broad perspective on democracy. It is a system where laws are laws, and where manadatory adherance to the rule law is - the rule of law.

It also recognizes that minorities have rights.

In my democratic world, the ultimate authority is the constitution. The constitution (created by the citizens) sets out the ground rules for the democracy, and how people will democratically govern themselves.

For example, Government agencies and departments should carry out the elected government's mandate and policies. The tail should not wag the dog. If an agency or institution is created by an Act of Parliament, for example, it should carry out its duties and mandate until those duties or mandate are changed by the government.

No government agency should be above the government that created it. When its time for a change it should be up to the democratically elected government to make the change, not up to the agency. I can't imagine, for example, that Revenue Canada would be allowed to set taxation rates. That would be the tail wagging the dog. But they can enforce taxation laws and regulations, and collect taxes.

I can't imagine the Department of National Defence deciding when and where to go to war. But I can imagine them carrying out measures as set out by elected government.

I can't imagine the RCMP making traffic laws. I can imagine them enforcing them.

That's how things are in my little world Tower.

[Kodiak]

OK Agstar, so you seem to want to answer a question with a question. But I'll keep trying - and so there aren't too many questions for you all at once, I'll just wait for your answer to silver's question. It's a practical one.

How would you go about setting up and running supply management in grain?

[dalek]

Maybe the difference is that under supply management, prices delivered to producers are HIGHER than they are under the "free market" to the south of us.

Just an off-the-wall thought that occurred to me. Maybe, just maybe, if I'm forced to sell to a monopoly (and about half of our gross income is from dairy) they'd better perform.