Depape nails Korneychuk on barley premiums

[Fransisco]

Barley premiums

Kyle Korneychuk presents some misguided ideas about the Canadian Wheat Board in his letter to the editor March 13. He suggests that "one seller can command a higher price than multiple sellers."

In theory, perhaps. In the reality of the current CWB, absolutely not.

Mr. Korneychuk and the other CWB directors have a responsibility to look at all the facts, not just the flawed economic analyses that they pay for.

And the facts speak loud and clear. The CWB does not get premiums in barley.

Richard Gray of the University of Saskatchewan is one of the authors of a study commissioned by the CWB that concluded the CWB gets $59 million a year more than an open market system would.

He admitted to me in a conversation that the CWB does not get premiums in feed barley. His view is that the CWB earns premiums only in malting barley, described as a premium over feed prices.

On a typical two million tonne malt barley pool, $59 million works out to about $29.50 per tonne, or 64 cents a bushel.

Over the last eight years, the average malt premium over feed in Montana was $1.23 a bu., almost double the premium Gray suggests the CWB gets.

But there's more. The average malt premium in Canada is closer to 46 cents a bu., lower than what Gray gives the CWB credit for.

So Mr. Korneychuk, where is the CWB-induced premium? Using your conclusions, if it weren't for the CWB, malt barley in Canada would be at a discount to feed barley. How absurd is that?

The reality is it appears western Canadian barley farmers would be better off without the CWB.

Clearly Montana farmers are....

- John De Pape,

Winnipeg, Man.

[chaffmeister]

Fransisco:

I saw this too (Western Producer).

Curious that the Borg doesn't say anything when shown real evidence that the CWB isn't doing so great....

[parsley]

What can they reply?

"I say Wheat Board or jail"

That's about their best argument.

Parsley

[chaffmeister]

Oh, I dunno. I thought they would come up with something terribly erudite like:

"Oh yeah?"

or,

"Does so!"

or,

"Am not!"


you know. The usual.

[cchurch]

My truck is my property and I can run all the stop signs I want to because I have property rights. And if the cops try and stop me I will sue their asses for police brutality.

Screw Socialism.

Its neat to apply redneck policies to other things in life.

[parsley]

cchurch,

Let's do analogy that is mirrors the CWB denying licenses to a particular area.

What would you say if the truck Licensing agency issued Registration permits to all Canadians except your town and a one hundred mile radius around your town. The decision was made by the Licensing Board of Directors in the backroom.

I presume you would be happy with that.

Parsley

[cchurch]

Well if that happened I would definitely go on a hungry strike inside the lobby of the truck registration department, but I would secretly have food brought in.

The CWB isn't denying anyone anything. If you are such a great marketer, you should have no problem using the CWB's PPOs to get the highest price possible.

We compromised for you guys, the CWB is now the most accountable and flexible grain industry organization in North America, but you still have this idiotic notion that the CWB is out to get you.

If you think the CWB is secretive, go ask Cargill or ADM or whoever to open up their books and show you. They won't tell you a damn thing, they will go tell you to f-off.

[parsley]

Good Morning cchurch,

I will make this clear.

1. Licensing

The CWB grants export and interprovincial licenses to all applicants outside the Designated Area.

The CWB denies licenses to farmers within the DA.

This is a fact, whether or not you want to recognize it.

2. Multinationals

I can deal with them or not. CHOICE.

If the Vehicle Registrar is the only game in town, you can accept their denial or walk. OR MOVE.


3. Class System?

"We compromised for you guys"

I presume CWB single Deskers think changing the color of paper for issuing the EMFA is called a "compromise".

There is no compromise cchurch. We either get freedom to choose or all bets are off. THAT IS THE ISSUE.

4. Secrecy

I don't know of any Government institution as secretive as the CWB, nor as devious, nor as playing the edge of the line with the truth.IM opinion.

They are shameless, and self-serving, and destructive in the farm community. They are divisive and have not worked in the best interests of farmers. IM opinion.

5. The Single-Desk Attitude

Don't even try to be condescendingly
"permissive" with Western DA farmers...."we give you guys..."!

It works just the opposite because DA'ers understand you are very willing to tolerate granting licensing privileges to Eastern farmers; yet you lobby to continue to deny those same licensing privileges to Western farmers.

A hyprocrite in full bloom, indeed.

I do not, repeat, NOT, want anyone with that attitude, as a business partner.

Parsley

[AdamSmith]

cchurch, lets examine your analogy shall we!

"My truck is my property and I can run all the stop signs I want to because I have property rights. And if the cops try and stop me I will sue their asses for police brutality."

Well if the stop signs were only on your property, you could run all the stop signs you wanted to. But the stop signs are on public property, and the consequence is a $160 fine. Unless of course you ran the stop sign at high speed and T-boned another vehicle and killed someone, then of course you have caused great harm to another person and demonstrated to the rest of society that you are a danger to society. In which case you would be fined $10,000 and sent to jail for quite a number of years.

So what you are revealing in your analogy is that you see all wheat on the prairies is "Public Property".
And that unlike your analogy with the truck and the stop sign, you believe that punishment for abusing the laws designed to protect the public property should the severest possible for all instances. Plus unlike the reality of your analogy, no harm need be demonstrated or proven in order to meet out the severest level of punisment.

The reality is the CWB has never once had to demonstrate or prove harm in order to maintain this gross law of prohibition in the private trade of wheat and barley.

All the cwb has ever done is spew out a bit of questionable economic theory along with all the righteous indignation about the private trade the cwb communications department could muster as all the justification needed in order to continue to expropriate private property.

Not even mentioning the agregious disrespect the cwb has shown a great many hard working taxpaying citizens of Canada.

The evidence of economic harm the cwb imposes on individuals alone is undeniable and the evidence of economic harm on the industry as a whole is becoming nearly as unquestionable.

The lack of evidence from the cwb to the contrary is just as telling.

The only thing were waiting for now is either having this minority government do what they said they would do on barley or an election to give them a majority in order scrap the whole rotten thing.

[Fransisco]

Well put Adam Smith. Stop signs are on "public" property not "private" property.

And if you take your private property and physically harm someone else or damage their private property then you should and are held responsible.

Selling ones own grain(property) does not physically harm or endanger anyone else or damage their property in the way that running a stop sign might.

The tired old stop sign analogy is a non-sequitur.

[Fransisco]

And in this instance it is also a straw man argument.

The thread has to do with whether or not the board gets you barley premiums. John DePape clearly shows that they don't. He presented no argument here based on property rights yet that is what you choose to attack.

Why? Maybe because you realize that the board doesn't get you premiums it actually costs you money and you have no way to counter the argument.

So you try to change the subject to "It's the Law".

[FarmRanger]

cchurch said “…the CWB is now the most accountable and flexible grain industry organization in North America…”

Every publicly traded company in North America is required to have an external financial audit done to protect investors from fraud. Another very important part of accountability is a customers ability to take business to the competition. Since neither of these apply to the CWB, just how are they the most accountable grain industry organization in North America?

[cchurch]

DePape said it—It must be true.
Richard Gray is always wrong.

Wow.

Next time DePape wants to talk about economics, he should not leave out details like higher freight costs in the U.S.

Not only that, he needs to remember one thing, if the U.S. was our only malt market, we would have one hell of a lot more barley being sold as feed. And Gerry Ritz wants more barley in the ground, to drive the high prices down. If Ritz wants low prices; I can guarantee he is on the right track.

Another thing if the CWB was "under-cutting" why are the grain elevators in the U.S. paying so much for barley, wouldn't they just buy from the CWB if it were cheaper, as opposed to bidding up the price.

[Fransisco]

Finally you're on to the subject, now if you can get past theory and move on to reality we'd really be getting somewhere.

The fact is...

<blockquote>"Over the last eight years, the average malt premium over feed in Montana was $1.23 a bu., almost double the premium Gray suggests the CWB gets.

But there's more. The average malt premium in Canada is closer to 46 cents a bu., lower than what Gray gives the CWB credit for."</blockquote>

This is not hard stuff to look up and verify. There is a great data base here...

http://wbc.agr.mt.gov/Producers/pricing_current.html

[AdamSmith]

cchurch,

DePape said it—It must be true.

DePape backs up his analysis with real numbers that any farmer or any person for that matter can verify for themselves.

Richard Gray is always wrong.

It's not just that Gray is always wrong, it's that Gray has been tasked to offer evidence of something that doesn't exist. His eveidence comes about from developing a formula which not even phD's can understand and passes it off as proof.

cchurch why is it that in the mind of a cwb supporter an unrecognizable and unexplainable formula carries more weight than a simple price comparison?

and why can't you figure out, because of this basic observation, why most farmers think cwb supporters are really not that bright?

Would you need a phD's thesis before you go shopping for groceries?

Hmm, this can of soup costs $1.29 and this can of soup costs $.89, I'll buy the one for $1.29 because it is the cheapest! Wow am I smart!