No Discrimination in "Buy Back" System

[charliep]

Interesting. As a simple guy (who does read footnotes and observes that table 18 is a weighted average based on marketings), you can perhaps help me understand both the CWB risk management strategy and how they measure performance of sales activities.

My understanding is the CWB has an assumed marketing pace based on their sales plan. If the actual pace of sales falls behind or gets ahead of the actual pace, the CWB uses futures to manage this risk. Is this accurate?

On the pricing side, the CWB benefit is based a sales department comparison of their actual prices to outside competitior ones. The BofD does not have an outside source to verify these numbers.

Do I have a correct understanding?

[TOM4CWB]

Charlie,

The CWB has told us that they are not going to do the DPC, in the 08-09 crop year; as it was too risky for them to deal with.

[SASKFARMER3]

Mustard sauce you really don't no much about marketing.
If you grow 12 Non CWB crops and points A B C are all the same you must be in a Bubble some where in Saskatchewan. Because in our area A B and C are always different then their is the Crushers in ND Loyd and Harrowby plus Clavet. All different. HM must be the same Cone of silence all CWB supporters live in.
Peas as a example we have three different locations within a 70 km area all have different prices and when I give my tons the price also changes if they want it they pay.

[grassfarmer]

Excellent comments mustardman "If you think you are Marketing Yourself when you sell your lentils to Pulse plant A, B or C , You are sadly mistaken.
By the way A, B or C are all the same price,funny how that happens."

Farmranger, your reply indicates you are under a false understanding of how the free market system works. " Pulse plant A, B, and C have to compete with each other, anyone consistently offering a lower price won't get supply..." They do not have to compete with each other if there are only three companies (or two as in the case of beef) price collusion is alive and well.

Vader's original post also contained a point very relevant to the beef sector - "..If those people actually think that as individuals that they are part of "the industry", they have a serious identity crisis." How well this applies to the leadership of beef commodity groups like ABP/CCA who continually preach that what is good for the foreign owned packing plants is good for the "industry" - unfortunately as you say producers are not part of that industry.

[Fransisco]

The prices used for the simple average calculation (as anyone can verify from the link I provided above but which Vader obviously did not)did not include weekends and holidays.

The prices were real, you could find in the range of 300 elevators on each and every one of those working days who would give farmers that price.

One wouldn't have to sell every day, but using regular intervals should net you an "average" price if that's what sets your heart aflutter. You can also use the futures markets to sell every day but that probably crosses the line from being too simple to being too sophisticated for the board crowd.

A basic working definition of premium is above average. It has been demonstrated time and again Rod that you deliver below average returns to farmers. You seem to think you are in some noble way helping them by doing so. Here's a newsflash, you're not.

And someone who doesn't seem to be able to comprehend that competition works the same on <b>both</b> buyers and sellers shouldn't be going around talking about how 'simple' other folks are.

[Fransisco]

The reason you don't like the "simple" average is that you "simply" can't beat it and that is the 'simple', easy to understand, truth.

Muddying the waters, Rod, will not help you to make them appear deep.

[Fransisco]

Mustardman and Grassfarmer you seem to believe that companies are guilty no matter what they do.

If the prices they give you are too low you accuse them of ‘monopoly’ like behavior. If one company offers prices different than another, you cry unfair competition, and if they offer up the same prices they are guilty of collusion or conspiracy.

There is no winning with you guys because you seem to have no use for the free enterprise system which is the surest way to economic growth.

[parsley]

mustardman;

You say:
"If you think you are Marketing Yourself .....You are sadly mistaken. "


Read it again!

I say:
Silly, Einstein, little, huge, dweeby, shnooky, clever, stubborn, blinded, greedy, droopy, gorby-loving, patient, impatient, cash-rich, dirt poor, likeable, hateable,all of them...every kind of them...FARMERS and they began organics.

Created it.

And they not only marketed the grain themselves, but they marketed the idea of organics, themselves.

Not too shabby an industry, I'd say.

Now, even the CWB wants to step in and claim it as their own.

The problem you have mustardman, is this...you do not believe in yourself, and you do not believe in, or have confidence in, the ability of your fellow farmers.

You still want the government teat.

You are still willing to pay the "Flaman-Fee" for that service.

I am truly sorry for you.

Parsley

[parsley]

Vader,

You will love the responses you recieve about pricing. Nice try.

You can talk for months and years, and decades about pricing.

Adjusting prices.

Conferencing.

Comparative charts.

Yup...studies, with enuff paper charts to revive Domtar.

Think of the gray colored studies to be commissioned which could concentrate on "suitably adjusting" your Flaman Fee, "tuning it", so to speak, as one does an FM radio station.

Oh, Vader, Vader, Vader, you want to divert our attention away from the real issue, which is denying Westerners licenses, and instead finaggle about pricing.

Very cleverless.

The real issue isn't about the amount of the buyback, or a fractional adjustment of it, or the currency it is based upon.

Nope.

The issuse is this ...Ontario doesn't DO a buyback at all.

None.


Zippo.

That's what we want.


NO BUYBACK LICENSES.

Let's keep our eye on the ball, folks.

Parsley

[mustardman]

Saskfarmer
The difference is pennies between A, b or C
Are you selling your peas direct to India ?
If so then You Are a Marketer.

If you are selling your peas to Viterra ,Pioneer,Parkland Pulse, Walker Seed etc etc etc. YOU are simply TAKING A PRICE.

For they then sell your product to enduser or other buyer at a hefty margin which ,by the way they will not disclose.

[parsley]

Yesssssssssssssssss!

You finally realize that EVERY FARMER must have, and maintain the right, to sell what he grows, to whom he chooses.

You're finally getting it, mustardman.

Parsley

[Fransisco]

No buyback licenses work for me.

At the end of the day I just want to choose who I do business with and when. I don't want those choices dictated to me.

[Fransisco]

So then mustardman by your own definition the CWB is a price taker and not a marketer.

The folks listed below are the ones who do the marketing.

http://www.cwb.ca/db/buying/sales_process/accredit.nsf/accexppage?ReadForm

Lets go through the list.

ADM
Alfred C. Toepfer (Canada) Ltd.
BARI - Canada Inc.
Bunge North America
Canada Malting
Cargill Limited
James Richardson International Limited
Louis Dreyfus Canada Limited
Parrish & Heimbecker
Paterson Grain
Sojitz Corporation of America
Viterra Inc.
Agro-Hall Ltd.
ConAgra Limited
Eagle Sterling Co. Limited

So lets see first these guys take their cut, then the CWB takes their cut and finally the farmer gets whatever crumbs are left over.

For someone who doesn't like middlemen skiming his profits mus you have kind of a misplaced faith in the board. No?

[Fransisco]

I mean, come on, each year these guys sell pretty much 50 percent of the wheat and up to 80 percent of Western Canadian barley.

[SASKFARMER3]

Vader and Mustard back to the Post.
Yes their is discrimination in this country where ORGANIC and East Canada can do what ever they want and Western Canada Cant!
That's it in plain truth.
But here is a Idea give us the opportunity to have a decent by back and allow us access to highest bidder, wouldn't it shake the tree because not every one would do it (CWB would stick with board) Supply would diminish, Then you could charge a penalty for those of us who don't have product to deliver to the CWB. OK that would be this year but one can wish but then the higher price dream is almost gone since most ND and Montana prices are down from their highs but one hiccup and guess what their up.
OK now back to the original comment, so if we then had a lower stocks ratio wouldn't that create a shortage in Canada and thus the CWB price having to go up.
But wait the big problem is that a few farmers would actually get a premium from the market and that is what the CWB doesn't want. Its like the DPC hitting $20.00 it didn't happen and it wasn't because of the market it was the CWB secret formula and the simple fact they couldn't let a farmer actually get the psychological $20.00 a Bushel for wheat he would be a legend that would hurt the CWB image.