Don't take your Beer tfor granted....

[parsley]

1. Do we have enough malt making/makers in Canada?

2. Is enough malt barley going to be grown?

3. Does the volatility of the price of barley scare the maltsters into less production?

4 Will credit availablilty in this economic climate tighten the neck on some maltsters?


5.Is Canada the only remaining dinosoaurs to disallow direct contracting between maltster and farmer?

The big question is this.....Who in their right mind will want to expand beer or malt production in Canada?


Farmer-Maltsters should be talking directly to each other, privatley, but instead we have the CWB interpreting their conversation in a language neither maltster nor farmer can speak or understand.

Who is dispensible here?

[SASKFARMER3]

OH! OH! OH! OH! OH! MR CARTER, I KNOW!!!

ITS THE CWB!

THe sooner they are gone the better it is for one and all.

[parsley]

The past while, there's been a bit of a brewer's buying fest, as one brewer buys out the other:

1.Carlsberg and Heineken bought Scottish & Newcastle

2.SAB Miller bought Grolsch.

3.Heineken got out of the Czech Republic but is building in Russia.

Where's Canada in all of this?

Farmers are doing their part and grow the best bloody malting barley in the world. Our brewers should be waving Canadian barley on a banner in every city in the world.

The worst albatross farmers have for going global is the Canadian Wheat Board.

What the hell has the CWB been doing behind closed doors that every one of them is blind?

Parsley

[broker]

there is direct contracting between the farmers and maltsters, it is just that the pricing is still done by the CWB. I have been contracting growers acres/tonnes for 2 malt companies for 4 years now. There are signifigant advantages in doing this, if not always the price. The deducts are less off of the CWB prices, ie better than the elevators offer, everything is picked up at the farm for those prices. Specs to meet to get malt are not as tight, and they are often willing to blend and take barley that the line companies won't even look at...

[parsley]

broker,

1. Are you telling me that the maltster buys directly from the farmer?
2. and that the farmer sells directly to the maltster?

3. and that the CWB are not in any way part of this transaction?

4. and that the cheque the farmer receives is signed by the maltster and paid directly to the farmer?

Parsley

[broker]

1. Yes they buy directly from the farmer.
2. The farmer has a direct production contract with the maltster.
3. As I said, the CWB sets the PRO, and the price is based off of that PRO/Initial plus payments.
4. When the barley is delivered, the maltster pays the farmer. Depending on the deal we make, any other CWB payments are sent to the farmer directly from the CWB.
Like I said above, the price is still set by the CWB, but we negotiate the basis/tariff, call it what you like. No different than selling your wheat to the local Paterson elevator. The CWB sets the price, but you don't deal with them, you deal with the manager at the elevator...

[broker]

Broker
I agree, and have done production contracts with two maltsters near me.
Problem remains is that the CWB sets the price, the Maltster can use some incentives to the producer, be it trucking, protein, germ, plump premiums but can't offer what they could if price transparency was reality.
CWB restricts what they can do. Even CashPlus hides the true price to producers while still shackling the maltster in what they can offer the producer.
Clearly with todays announcement from Stats Can of Barley of 8.7 million acres here in the west, a whopping 15.4% drop, has most likely put a heck of a lot more stress on the Canadian maltsters.
With US corn short, and projected prices for feed corn continuing to be very strong - thereby keeping feed barley strong - then either the CWB has to allow the maltsters the ability to price fully with producers to ensure the malt barley they need or just give it up.
Frankly we all know its time for them to give it up. If we lose even one maltster this new crop year, that death is fully at the hands of the CWB, where's the CWB's value in that?

Erik

[parsley]

Silly boy.
The money always gets dragged through CWB hands, and you know it.

You negotiated behind closed doors with the CWB. And banged out a price. How many farmers sat at that table?

Approximately 1.13 Million tonnes of malting barley will be exported in the coming season.

Approx. 635,000 tonnes will go to the U.S. and Mexico.

Maltsters get a piece of the export action, (unless perhaps you volunteer your time), and the Board gets a piece of the action, right?

Some farmers don't necessarily want to deal with a specific malting company, or any Canadian company when exporting!

Some farmers want to export their grain directly to the USA or to Denmark , or to Mexico, or to Latvia.

(And then there's the domestic malt buyer. Farmers are held captive by them via the CWB, as well.)


So, Canadian malting companies are necessary, but in the case of exporting ship-direct beckons. In other words, you are expendable in a global word.

Very expendable.


Smart boy.
As long as you have the Board in place, you have captive farmers' grain, haven't you?

And we all know how the CWB can "negotiate" behind closed doors so that your pain is 'eased'. Especailly if you squawk in public, loudly.

And at present, both maltsters and the CWB do have the farmers by their matched pairs, which cause loud cries of "Uncle"

But all 14k gold toilets eventually see a firm end in sight.


Foolish boy.
So here's the synopsis:

The farmer needs the maltster, ideally the Canadian maltster if he 's reasonable, but not necessarily the Canadian maltster.

Read that one again.


The maltster needs the farmer. Problematic is a shortage of barley and non-promising committed acres. He can buy from foreign farmers, though.

Neither need the CWB. Will readers and advertisers need newspapers in the future?


The way it is, both the Board and the maltsters pretend there is business being done here is in the best interest of the farmer.

'Tis not.

And in a global world,the smarter buyers/players are moving away from centralized power; and instead moving towards the outskirts of commerce, bringing in and inviting in those players from places where power has not permitted them to speak, or sell, or be.

Good Advice: Pick a long term friend, and stand by him through thick and thin.


Parsley

[Burbert]

If you don't like the malt barley system, then don't grow the stuff. Leave the rest of us alone, thankyou very much!!!!!

[broker]

and I never said that we like the CWB being involved. As a "broker" I am not on one side or the other. I want to see my farmer customers making money, and I also like beer (so we need malt). I don't believe that the maltsters want the CWB involved necessarily in this anymore either. Right now, the CWB is making it difficult with a B Pool barley price almost equal to 6 row malt. I am pretty sure the maltsters would like to be able to go out and pay what they want for the best barley out there, and not be shackled to the Board.
In the malt game, somewhat unlike wheat, the board does very little besides taking a cut in the middle out of the pie. The maltsters almost always make their own export sales, and they can buy from farmers and the trade without the CWB. At least with wheat, the board is actually making some of the sales.
We will see one more year of CWB controlled malt, that is my prediction. Even more so than in wheat, they are no longer needed.

[rockhound]

Burbert:
Your I.Q. is showing again.

[charliep]

Burbert

You are growing malt barley this year? Are you a good supply chain partner - have a track record that you can grow malt barley 7 years out of 10 and have business reputation of meeting commitments? This is the type of individual maltsters are wanting to contract with.

I note the thread title. Don't take your beer for granted. As a consumer of your product, you are there as a part of the supply chain to satisfy my needs. If you can't work within the supply to support this result, then you should look for another career.

[parsley]

Games.

Players always say they are too old for these kind of games, and then they play the old "We are contracting with each other" kinda crap.

What I was getting at broker, is after all is said and done, no matter how many fancy jottings are made in the margins, the bottom line is this:

The Board sets the price, and the grain essentially passes through the Board, and there is NO FREE MARKET AT WORK IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. There isn't just a buyer and a seller. There is warble sucking at both, too.

And of course, the Board publically prides itself, propagandizing that farmers and maltsters are dealing with each other directly.

I am very impatient with that kind of propaganda being allowed to idle.


The CWB needs to be run over by their own marketing vehicle.

Truth can do the driving.

Parsley

[charliep]

Parsley

To your original questions, I note table 16 of the CWB annual statistical tables (see CWB website). Malt product product exports 600,000 10 years ago to about 832,000 tonnes in this past year. At the same time, the level of domestically process malt barley used by breweries in Canadian beer has declined from the 350,000 the CWB uses to something under 200,000 tonnes. More of the beer we drink has imported malt in it. Given our dependence on export markets, Canadian maltsters biggest fear should be shutting down a plant here and moving that processing capacity elsewhere to an offshore or US location.

Within Canada, I also have to note the move to imported specialty beers and micro breweries. These products use different types of malt barley and processes. Realizing the volumes will not be big, this should create the opportunity for more specialized identity preserved systems and perhaps (heavan forbid) smaller scale malting plants.

[parsley]

I was quoting from a quote from H. M. GAUGER's Malt MARKET REPORT :

Maybe my conversion from tons to tonnes are awash.Check them, charliep.


CUT AND PASTE QUOTE

"Canada expects to export 2,5 Mill. tons of barley vs. 1,2 Mill. tons in 2006/07. 1,20 – 1,25 Mil. tons will be malting barley, of which 700.000 tons will go to the U.S. and Mexico"

CUT AND PASTE UNQUOTE

Parsley