maybe some balance

[Fransisco]

Ethanol and bio fuels have a long, long, long way to go before they become cost effective against simply drilling a hole in the ground.


Jensen, I'm confused you're the one who claims that the free market doesn't exist anywhere. If that is the case then the subsidy/mandate model being used for ethanol fits perfectly with your worldview. And if that is the case why are you opposed to it?

[jensend]

where did i say i was in favour of subsidies? i don't recall ever saying that but if you can find an instance i would have to own up. my worldview is that free enterprise has been eroded and this is damaging to many sectors of the economy. tom has always denied to me that his crop insurance is a subsidy because everything is subsidized so he's not really getting a subsidy! seems that subsidization is more his worldview. if you took away all subsidies (won't happen, too many special interest groups that own governments) just about every part of the economy would function differently and better.

[TOM4CWB]

Jensend,

What is it with you and your hate on for crop insurance?

'Subsidies'...?

What do you think we do... when we buy diesel for $1.30/L? How much of this ends up in a gov. account... somewhere?

When we buy potash... most of our other inputs... that Gov encourages co's to 'consolidate' and increase profit 'extraction'... so the various gov's can collect massive...more and more...the tax grabs...

This whole system is built on massive gov. involvement in industry/economy...

OPEC... CWB... UIC... WCB... CPP... WTO... NAFTA... GST... Gun control... Autopac... Aerospace... Bombardier... Armed Forces... Rail... Airlines....Banks... cheap food policy...

O.K. so show me where in the competitive economy... on my cost side in particular... when IS gov. NOT regulating!

And you are upset... that our farm is about to write a cheque for well over $100,000... to pay crop insurance for 08?

What is that all about?

What does this have to do with Biofuels... and the C.D. Howe Institute... and their apparent need to scuttle biofuels?

[jensend]

gee tom we agree on most of what you just said. regulation means less free enterprise so efficiencies are lost and bad decisions are made. you like to take the line if i disagree on one thing i disagree on everything. the world isn't so black and white. it's actually quite complex. we all have our hypocricies; the trick is to recognize them for that and see how the world really operates. it's a lot tougher to be objective than dogmatic. nobody has it all figured out but if you don't ask the question you won't find the answer!

[parsley]

"if you took away all subsidies (won't happen, too many special interest groups that own governments) just about every part of the economy would function differently and better."


I agree with you jensend.

Parsley

[jensend]

the problems are exacerbated because one regulation is stacked on another to try to address the imbalance resulting from the first regulation. how much further can we go before the system is so screwed that it collapses? my guess is not much longer. the whole economy is due for a realignment.

[Fransisco]

"the problems are exacerbated because one regulation is stacked on another to try to address the imbalance resulting from the first regulation."

You're bang on with this one as well.

[jensend]

chillax tom. the reason i always pick on crop insurance is because the premiums are so heavily subsidized. if farmers were paying the whole premium for an actuarially sound program maybe they would realize how risky their businesses are. if you're paying 100g how much is the taxpayer picking up?

[parsley]

...and no, jensend,fyi, no CI at all here, zippo, so no taxpayers money spent.

He who pays has to get some say.


That's why the Government has say over any program they are legislatviely responsible for.

Parsley

[jensend]

parsley: and no, jensend,fyi, no CI at all here, zippo, so no taxpayers money spent.

He who pays has to get some say.



exactly.