Tracing Food...Who Pays?

[parsley]

From the latest Moving Forward motions:

"commits Governments to continue to work with the sector to put in place traceability and biosecurity systems."


Okay...the audit trail for food is put into place. Who should pay for security of food?

Parsley

[charliep]

No one wants to take up your question Parsley so I will.

Realizing meat and vegetables are different than grain, should the grain industry be looking at the experiences/impact of ecoli/samonella issues on meat, tomatoes, spinach, lettuce, etc.? With the speed these issues hit the main stream media, doesn't any supply chain need to be able to react quickly to an issue with a traceability system the backbone.

Looking specifically at grain, how much more needs to be done with the level of sampling done at each stage of the delivery/logistics process? Perhaps what will be needed is better software/ways of sharing information. Will an improved traceability system in the grain sector cost that much more? Is having a audit process a bad thing to ensure to customers that best practices are being carried out? Again, will it be that much more expensive?

[parsley]

I presume that AAFC meant what they said when they issued their press release last week concerning the Agr vision dubbed Growing Forward:

" In addition, the framework commits Governments to continue to work with the sector to put in place traceability and biosecurity systems. "


When the traceability systems are put in place, somebody had to pay for them functioning.

Like....uh....every year.


Will Western farmers pay for audit trails because:

1. The buyers downloaded the cost on us by outsmarting us.
Or...

2. We were so busy dozing, we pay the traceability bills by default, without noticing .
Or...

3. We are just too dumb.

I hope Growing Forward doesn't mean Groaning Forward" under the wight of costs. No one replied charliep, so I assume no one cares who pays.

Parsley

[bduke]

Parsley....who pays for organic traceability?

I would bet that your three conclusions are not either/or...but 1 and 2 and 3...
Bill

[parsley]

Farmer:

A different situation because ll grain is sold FOB farm.

The audit trail is paid for on the production end by the farmer.
Then it leaves him and his responsibility.

Processor/Cleaner.
The audit trail is paid for by the processor/cleaner for this part of the sale

End-User doing bagging/ sales/ etc. pays for the audit trail in his store etc.

Parsley

[bduke]

Parsley....your response begs the question...Are organic prices derived on a cost plus basis...or discovered via supply and demand?

Do you know of public companies involved along the organic chain which would have to publicize their results?

I ask because i'm curious how these costs are balanced at each end...production and consumption...Bill

[parsley]

No organic companies HAVE to publish their results except to shareholders. But in organics, all palyers have been intent on making sure the other stayed in business. We NEED each other. We recognize the importance of the other.

That's basic.

If a player is not needed, they are deleted. With the exception of the CWB. The CWB, of course, provides no value, not good ethics in my estimation as they are busy STEALING the markets away from the producer himself. They also lend a bad reputation to organics.They add cost for no service.

But the good thing about direct from producer to end-user in other grains, is that they talk to each other.

Pricing is set in many different ways.


Parsley

[bduke]

Parsley.....All organic companies with which you deal are therefore private....interesting....a good strategy....Bill

[sidvicious02]

I'm a little late to the dance here, but thought i would add a little to the discussion. Many elevator companies/processors already have significant tracing systems in place. Former Agricore United elevators used to keep samples from every load for a minimum number of days to comply with their ISO standards. Many other companies started to follow suit in the past couple of years with concern over ineligible varities. I believe there are at least 2 companies that are using sample & seal bags for every producer load of grain as well as shipments. This should theoretically allow the company to trace any contamination (ie unregistered variety, malathion treatment, etc) back to the individual producer's load(s). Cost of bags for most elevator companies should be <10 cents/tonne so it's not terribly significant in the grand scheme of things.

[parsley]

sid,


Waltz me through this:

1. Are the costs of bagging, and sample-taking and storing and paperwork tracking for wheat and barley, included in the part of the of the handling agrremnets the CWB has with their accredited agents? In other words, is the farmer already paying these costs, which would be expensed out at considerably more than "a few bags". Hmppphh.

2. Recall is the biggie here, and the costs can be astronomical. The cost of the actual traceability once the "harm" is discovered comes quickly.

For example, poison purposefully coated on grain by a madman.

Yikes...RECALL.

Who pays for 24/7 tracers?

Who pays for 24/7 documentation?

Who pays for 24/7 communication? (Canola Assoc has few expenses lol)

Who pays for 24/7 buying replacement?


REPLACEMENT. Yup. So who pays?

These are questions, if left to accredited agents, whose solutions will be downloaded onto farmers.

I presume the Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association have it all negotiated favorably for wheat farmers, as will the Farmers' Union for all farmers.


Here's an opportunity for a good bet. Anyone?

Thanks for coming to the dance, sid.

Parsley

[charliep]

Interestingly enough, had a conversation about tomatoes.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUKN1745688020080718

Can any supply chain afford not to have a traceability system? The organic supply chain is short with easily identifiable participants and likely protocols at each stage. In the case supply chains with multiple participants, can the system go the same route?

Once a supply sorts out that traceability the next stages are who commits to what and how costs are minimized.

[charliep]

Perhaps part of differences is between organic and commodity markets. Organic is a consumer pull system where the customer tells the value chain (notice my word) what they want and the members of the supply chain work to make it happen (at profit for everyone). In the commodity world, farmers produce and hope to sell. There are few if any transfer of information/benefit up and down the supply chain (not value chain). Traceability is one of the steps along the road to better information sharing.

[parsley]

Dear Tomato Talker,

And if the product/grain/forage was sold clearly marked SOLD FOB FARM..................

What financial and legal responsibilities would farmers then have?

Zip.



Parsley

[charliep]

So a farmer who stores their canola in a bin treated with malathion (either accidently or on purpose) and jeopardizes the relationship with a Japan shouldn't be held accountable?

http://www.canola-council.org/pesticide_link2.aspx

[charliep]

To go back to sidvicious02, we have a good traceability system today in grain today and that allows us access to markets. If we consistently fell out of specification on grains, best case scenario will be that traceability is a requirement included in contracts by buyers (no choice then if Canada wants to do business) or worst Canada is locked out of markets.

Your point may be that current safeguards are enough and there isn't any need to do more. Thats fair.