Lawsuit against Canadian Fert Companies for Price Fixing!

[cottonpicken]

Chaff you can argue incompitence/free market/freedom/seperation of government and market etc etc.

But you can NOT say controlling 15% of something doesnt give you certain leverage.

Do you need an analogy?


Saudia arabia pumps 9.45 million barrels per day into a market of 86 million barrels.

They cant influence price?

[cottonpicken]

I would love to see people move past the obivous.

Start asking why.

Whats the motive?
Who's benefiting?
Why would they do this?

A few jobs in winterpeg is not an answer.
Because their lazy/dumb is not an answer.

A few billion dollars worth of food demands more than trivial,off the cuff,ignorant remarks.

[cottonpicken]

And thank you for pooling me into pro cwb.

[chaffmeister]

You question your “pooling” among CWB supporters, yet you post:

Few sellers=high price
Lots of sellers=low price
But not many ever did well at monopoly on this site.

I know you’re talking about fertilizer but your reference in the last line is all about the CWB debate.

You say we should move on beyond the obvious but you don’t. Please re-read my question and then take a stab at answering it.

<b>If the CWB has monopoly powers, why doesn't it get better returns?</b>

Forget the argument of how much of the market the CWB “controls”. They may be dominant in a particular type/class of wheat (the CWB’s argument) but once you factor in substitutions, individual “dominance” wanes.

The CWB thought they could expand malt barley sales into China but guess what? The Chinese will make malt out of gravel if they have to. Pay a premium to Canada? You’re kidding, right?

Take a look at our malt barley exports to China over the last few years. Lower each year.

The CWB has a 60% share of the export durum market; why doesn’t it just charge $1,500/tonne and call it a day?

The CWB’s idea of market power in durum is to hold off selling, thinking this will push prices higher. All it does is allows other exporters and sellers to sell everything they want to and Canadian farmers carry the ending stocks for just about the whole globe.

So, assuming the CWB’s theory is right and it’s successful, not only do other countries get higher prices, they also sell out. You get to store durum.

You want to start asking why – is that an admission that the CWB system isn’t working so lets find out why?

My view of things:

CWB staff is doing the best they can, with the tools and techniques available to them.

CWB senior management does not understand the business they’re in.

CWB BODs have blinders on; it’s a religion to them. Some would rather kill the CWB than see it succeed in a dual market.

Many, many decisions made by the CWB, both policy and operational, are made with the sole purpose of protecting the CWB itself. Sorry, but much of the time, it has absolutely nothing to do with pool returns for farmers. Nothing.

The liberals know they’ve taken the wrong side of this argument but have made it into a political argument. How’s it feel to be a political pawn?

Now Cottonpicken:

Please answer my first question and yours too. Where the value? And if its not there, why?

[malleefarmer]

Monopsony or Monopoly
check it out in your bussiness dictionarys and you will realize which cwb actually is.

[malleefarmer]

dont lump cotton in with the rest on either side of the argument for that matter.
hes a gdi god damn independant

had stick up for you cp

[chaffmeister]

The CWB is neither a monopsonist nor a monopolist. A monopsonist is an entity that, as the only buyer, acts to lower the price it pays – for its own benefit. A monopolist is an entity that, as the only seller, acts to raise the price at which it sells – for its own benefit. The CWB fits neither definition.

Cotton was included because he thinks the rest of us are wasting our time debating the CWB while he thinks he’s got it figured out. From what he’s posted here over the past weeks and months, it’s my humble opinion that, GDI or not, he doesn’t have it (the CWB) figured out.

For one thing, he has denigrated some posters on Agriville for discussing the CWB as if they don’t get it and they're wasting our time – because there’s much bigger things to talk about that are more worthwhile.

I think $1.2 BILLION below average makes it worthwhile. (And that was just last year; they’re below average every year.)

He is no doubt more “independent” in his thinking than Burbert, Wilagro, Evader, etc. but he, like all of them, doesn’t see the CWB for what it really is – a parasite on the Western Canadian economy.

As for sticking up for CP; no offense, but from what I can see, he can certainly take care of himself.

[cottonpicken]

Thank you very much Malle,i owe you an e-mail,i've been trying to find that e-mail address of yours in the archives,but cant.Things i say seem to disappear on this site.

Mine is pill_pilsner@yahoo.ca

Chaffy,are you sick of getting your clock cleaned by me?

If you or anyone would like to reference were i step into the on going cwb debate on this site,you will find yourself simply outshined.

I dont get into it.

Ive plainly expressed my views.

Not days,not weeks,but years ago.

I have said before that I defer to Charlie and Tom when it comes to cwb topics.But not all.The theoretical why's are still out there for everybody.

Those men know what their talking about because it is very obvious they have spent time on the subject.

Even if i mix it up with them once in a while.

Now Chaff,the questions i asked were NOT rehtorical.

I dont know the answers!

And i never claimed to have figure it out!

Nobody can,but they would be fun to discuss.....


And there ARE other major issues that are continuously ignored.

And now the big question-

Where's the value,and why?

-follow the money,who benefits?
(i hate answers that are questions)

[chaffmeister]

No need to get defensive CP – all I was saying is that what you’ve said about the CWB is pretty pedestrian: "It’s a monopoly"; "fewer sellers = higher prices". You’ve even said that others don’t get the monopoly thing here: <b>“not many ever did well at monopoly on this site”</b> (That’s what I meant by saying you think you’ve got it figured out – saying that others never “did well” means you think you do) That kind of stuff.

But my point is, it’s not a monopoly (nor a monopsony) and all that theoretical stuff just doesn’t fit here.

And I know the questions you asked were not rhetorical. Here they are again:
Whats the motive?
Who's benefiting?
Why would they do this?

You also added these:
And now the big question-
Where's the value,and why?
-follow the money,who benefits?

What’s interesting is that is exactly the question I asked:
“Where the value? And if its not there, why?”

First let’s go to your last question:
“follow the money, who benefits?”
You assume that decisions are made to benefit someone, even if it costs farmers. I guess a conspiracy theory could be made suggesting the CWB sells to its customers cheap who in turn pay off the staff of the CWB. I don’t believe that happens. I think they sell at the bottom of the market, because the system’s not working.

And I think you agree; on March 13th, you posted:
<b>Its not really about picking tops.
Its about market direction, understanding and opportunity.
Logistically, I suppose a price has to be paid but selling low and driving the market lower makes no sense.</b>

I agree. But it sure appears that’s what the CWB’s doing.

<b>Whats the motive?</b> There is none; they’re not trying to do a lousy job. (And I don’t think they’re funneling money somewhere. Naïve? Perhaps, but I just can’t go there.)

<b>Who's benefiting?</b> No one (at least no one in particular …… unless you subscribe to the conspiracy theory…)

<b>Why would they do this?</b> Do a bad job? The job is just to sell grain and move it. No one ever said they had to be good at it.

Now it’s your turn, CP. Or anyone else (Wilagro, Grainbeetle, Evader, Agstar, Burbert, etc):


<b>Where’s the value of the CWB? And if its not there, why?</b>

[GrainBeetle]

Chaff and Fran sure like to use bold text in there comments.