TIPPING POINT

[Fransisco]

Cheap credit, is like cheap booze at a Frat party. A lot more folks than normal tend to overindulge when they're available.

[jensend]

it would be nice if it was simple enough to blame on one person, one administration or one event but diane francis in the national post calls bush on it:

In the U. S., the monkeys guard the bananas
Diane Francis, Financial Post
Published: Tuesday, September 23, 2008

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Protecting the American people from terrorism should include internally, but apparently Homeland Security and All the President's Men didn't put on their radar screens attacks that have been underway for years against New York's towers from the inside by capitalist cowboys.

Now Wall Street is no more -- that cavernous intersection of greedy human nature and the uniquely Republican dogma of deregulation or "invisible hand-ism" or financial hockey without referees.

Weekend news that Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley will become "holding companies" is simply a finesse intended to disguise the fact that all five Wall Street firms are now gone. And deserve to disappear. Of course, the victims are the taxpayers who, Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson informed yesterday, will be on the hook for US$700-billion. Others put that tab at US$1-trillion or US$2-trillion if the contagion keeps spreading despite increasing amounts of backstopping.

Frankly, lawsuits and handcuffs and RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) prosecutions are in order, but let's see if this attack results in mass arrests, full body searches, shipments to Gitmo or pinstriped stints in the slammer. I think RICO's a fine idea and taxpayers should be able to seize all the assets of all the managers, directors and executives who oversaw this conspiracy of recklessness for years. The money shot for me would be front-page photographs of government-induced foreclosures in Palm Beach and Palm Springs of Wall Streeters' mansions, stock portfolios, Porches and private jets.

But don't hold your breath because the monkeys guard the bananas in the United States and always have. Take Mr. Paulson, who, frankly, would have a major conflict of social interest in taking tough measures against the culprits.

After all, he swam in those charmed circles. His remarkable career has spanned from a stint in the 1970s as assistant to Nixon sidekick John Erlichson (remember Watergate?), to a business career ending in his ascension as chief executive and chairman of Goldman Sachs. This made him the Czar of the Street in his day between 1999 and 2005, when he answered the call to public service and became Bush's Treasury Secretary.

He cashed in his Goldman options for a staggering US$700-million to go to Washington, which makes him the best market-timer in the history of Wall Street, I reckon.

Paulson will leave along with the rest of the Bushies, having bailed out problems he helped create, and not a minute too soon. The Bushies won't attack their base because after they leave Washington they will be hanging out in Palm Beach and Palm Springs with the gangs that got away. The only hope for justice would be to bring Eliot Spitzer out of mothballs or purgatory or wherever he is these days.

Frankly, Bush and "his brains trust" should be held accountable for this attack on America's financial system. They let the capital and derivatives nonsense grow until they became the "financial weapons of mass destruction," as Warren Buffett astutely described them two years ago.

dfrancis@nationalpost.com - Blog: www.financialpost

[Zaphod]

How about a little personal responsibility? People who lived within their means are doing just fine.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/story.html?id=814048&p=1

[Fransisco]

Your right jensen it's not one person or one event. Francis is wrong to lay all the blame on Bush, he just happened to be in power when the bomb went off. There is a reason it's called the drive by media. Financial bomb goes off, Bush is in office, therefore it is Bush's fault. Case closed, no need to look further than that. Good grief, do a little homework woman.

What about the community reinvestment act of 1977 that got this all started?

What about all of the changes the Clinton administration made in 1995 to further loosen up the requirements for loans?

What about the fact that Bush in 2003 tried to reign in this mess but the democrats voted against it?

What about the $300,000 a year Barack Obama has been getting from Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, AIG, Countrywide Financial, and Washington Mutual?

What about Alan Greenspan cheering on the sub prime boom while it was happening?

Its a lot of people over a lot of time but there is a common denominator. All these folks thought they knew better what the market should be rather than what it actually was. They all thought they could "fix" the market and even though they have been proven wrong again they still do.

I read a scary comment last night, what if we have reached the stage where companies that are supposedly to big to fail are now to big to bail out?

[Fransisco]

oops that should be "<b>too</b> big to fail are now <b>too</b> big to bail out?"

[GrainBeetle]

Franny: dont you recall 1997 and all the FREE government money? True capitalist aren't you?

Your "Commie" labels are weak. You must truly believe that there are only two governments in the world, COMMIES and your idealist John Wayne governments, nothing in the middle.

Speaking of nothing in the middle, .....Ride em Cowboy yeh hah!

[GrainBeetle]

Franny, on Sep 22, 2008 19:40 you said:
"Actually the start of this whole housing mess goes back to the Carter administration. That's when the regulation of creditors started .... blah blah blah...

Looks like you borrowed this commentary from your hero Rush Limbaugh without permission or credit. That is not a capitalist thing to do now is it?

CC:http://www.rushlimbaugh.com

<a href="http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_092208/content/01125108.guest.html">Franny's Source of Knowledge</a>

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_092208/content/01125108.guest.html

[Fransisco]

Grainbeetle, the biggest financial story in 1997 was the Asian crisis. If you are talking about something else why can't you just say what it is? Do you think we're all mind readers here?

You certainly seem to think you're one and you are as close to the mark as a two bit carnival gypsy woman. My source was actually this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act

And really is that the best you can come up with? If Rush Limbaugh quotes actual events in history they can't possibly be right? And to be fair lots of commentator's are talking about the same thing as Rush and I, here's another one...

http://marklevinshow.com/wp-content/themes/levin/player/?url=http://podloc.andomedia.com/dloadTrack.mp3?prm=2824xhttp://abcrad.vo.llnwd.net/o1/levin/rss/levin09192008.mp3

And there are dozens of other possible sources quoting the same series of events. Why? Because they happened, and because they are relevant to what's going on!

What you have a problem with is the facts, the facts don't mesh with your worldview, you can't change them, so instead you simply attack the people who are just telling it like it is. A personal attack is not an argument grainbeetle.

And you don't even pay attention to what we're saying. Go back up to my post at 21:00 on this thread. Re-read it S-L-O-W-L-Y. Then re-read it again, notice how I talk about <b>MIXED ECONOMIES</b> and how that is the model which all the western style democracies are currently using. The mixed economy is middle of the road you ninny! You know, yellow lines, dead skunks, blown tires, and all those other good things like government bailouts, that you find in the middle of the road.

Let me give you a little advice grainbeetle, if you don't like your insulting questions thrown back in your own face maybe you should think twice about posting them in the first place. Because clearly you are in the camp of those who can dish it out but can't take it.

[GrainBeetle]

Franny's news heros are rush limbaugh, mark levine, sean hanninty, bill cunningham, karl rove, et.al.

for those of you who do not know these people, google them, and you will find out what Franny is all about.

[Fransisco]

Pretending to be mind reader again grainbeetle?

I'd rather stick to what is actually being said, but hey if you want to continue the journey into never-never land I'll join you for a bit. If you think it's fair to put words in my mouth then it must be fair for me to put them into yours as well.

Here are some of grainbeetles news sources:

Dr. Seuss, Robert Munsch and the Brothers Grimm.

If you want to know where his mind is at take a look at their books.

Alas, he has yet to learn the lesson of Yertle the Turtle.

<blockquote>"And turtles, of course ... all the turtles are free

As turtles, and maybe, all creatures should be."</blockquote>