Now What?

[AdamSmith]

What do we know today that we didn't know yesterday?

ie. what has this election taught us?

1. Quebec is a mystery to the ROC.

2. Harper shouldn't abandon every conservative principle out the window to please/covet/pander to Quebec. What he needs to do is build a team, a political machine if you will in Quebec. That is what wins elections. The Conservative party doesn't have one in LeBelle Province, they need one to win. Pandering to polls and the whims of opposition smears will only cause more disappointment. The Cons have got to get their ground game in order in Quebec.

NFLD? The Monty Python of Canada, they should have stayed British in 1949.

The Canadian Wheat Board?

Well the DA electorate didn't seem to send the message that Vader and Agstar were ranting on about earlier. You know the silly noise about Harper stepping in a warm squishy one when he tried (poorly) to give farmers choice.
Sorry CWBers, that one died tonight.

All in all I feel pretty good about tonight.

Do I think Harper will nick the CWB?

Yes, if he moves within the next 4 months.

If he doesn't move within then,

might as well reserve a 2 ft by 3 ft space on your office wall for the CWB calender for many many years to come.

Happy Liz May lost.
Happy Nettie lost.
Happy for Con gains in NS,NB,PEI,Ont, MB and BC.
Ticked that Ralphy won.
Ticked that PET's son Justin won in Que.
Happy it will be PMSH for the next 2 -3 years.

All in all, were better off today than we were yesterday.

[AdamSmith]

oh yeah,

I think introductions are in order here.

Uh, Backbench ... meet Gerry Ritz, Gerry Ritz ... meet the backbench.

[AdamSmith]

Back on the cwb.

we've bit our lips for what seems like an eternity now about the Cons. handling of the cwb file.

Guys, that ends tonight.

This issue has to be dealt with and dealt with properly.

NOW.

It's become more than just wheat and barley, it's the entire grains industry. We just can't get traction on other important grains issues like fertilizer price fixing or Canola basis levels or crop insurance or wheat variety registration or a hundred other things.

All these issues have just as much impact on the profitability of grain farmers as anything else but we're stuck on cwb. It's time to deal the death blow to the monopoly and then move on to these other issues.

But rest assured the cwb MUST be dealt with. Choice must become law.

It's up to all of us who want choice to press harder than ever to get movement on the cwb issue,

Harper will be able to govern as if he has a majority for the next year and a half, so we have to get this done now.

On this one Steve, you will get a Do-over.

Just don't bleep it up this time!

[chuckChuck]

Will someone please explain why it is okay for the Conservatives to support supply managed monopoly marketing boards for dairy and poultry and at the same time say farmers must have marketing choice with western grains?

Considering what has played out in world financial markets in the last few weeks who in their right mind still thinks that a deregulated "freemarket" system actually works in the interest of anyone except the greedy?

For those of you who spend most of your posts arguing in favour of a deregulated freemarket, please explain why ordinary citizens should suffer because of the gross incompetence and excessive greed of Wall street?

[Zaphod]

As much as I think that supply mgmt breeds inefficiencies (compare New Zealand to Canada on dairy), the difference is farmer wishes. A large majority of dairy and feather farmers are fine with the system. Not so with the CWB.

[liberty]

Chuck,

Before you go blaming the free market for the recent financial meltdown, you might want to do some research on a piece of American legislation called the Community Reinvestment Act, originally brought into force by Jimmy Carter and revamped by Bill Clinton in the 90's. In a nutshell, the Act imposed affirmative action on mortgage lending policies. The result was to force lending institutions to give vast numbers of mortgages to people with little or no hope of repaying them, on pain of being sued by the government for "discrimination".

That's the dirty little secret at the heart of the recent economic chaos, which liberals don't want to acknowledge.

[silverback]

Do you even understand what you just wrote there cluck?

How ignorant and illogical is it to say "... at the same time say farmers must have marketing choice with western grains."

How in the f%@# is it just fine that only western canadians have no freedom to choose who buys their grain????

You freaking communists have been holding these farmers back too long and that is about to end.

If freedom is such a terrible thing why exactly are you still living in Canada where most things we do involve some freedom of choice.??

[bluefargo]

ChuckChuck, your first question is an easy one. Almost all the dairy is located in Ontario and Quebec. No government will risk touching supply management. Western Canada has paid dearly for this over the years.

The bank bailout bothers me too - especially in Canada where our banks are so strong and powerful. I think Canada had to be seen to be seen to be doing something.

There is something unattractive about free enterprisers grovelling for government help. I guess we have to trust the policy makers around the world that these bailouts are for the common good. We will have to hold our noses on this one.

[chaffmeister]

Here's a question for you Chuckles:

For those of you who spend most of your posts arguing in favour of a regulated market, please explain why ordinary citizens should suffer because of the gross incompetence of the CWB?

In 06-07, the CWB pool return (the CWB's average selling price) on wheat was $100/t UNDER the average posted CWB selling price to buyers.

On a pool of 13.4 million tonnes, that means $1.34 BILLION less than a pool that got just average prices for the year.

ChuckChuck - this means $1.34 BILLION that the Western Canadian economy didn't get that it should have.

Actually, I always thought the CWB should do better than average - not average, certainly not BELOW average, but better than average.

Please explain why you think the CWB is the tool to use for marketing.

And when you fail to come up with an answer, you'll have one more way the CWB is different than supply management.

[chuckChuck]

Will someone please explain why it is okay for the Conservatives to support supply managed monopoly marketing boards for dairy and poultry and at the same time say farmers must have marketing choice with western grains?

Considering what has played out in world financial markets in the last few weeks who in their right mind still thinks that a deregulated "freemarket" system actually works in the interest of anyone except the greedy?

For those of you who spend most of your posts arguing in favour of a deregulated freemarket, please explain why ordinary citizens should suffer because of the gross incompetence and excessive greed of Wall street?

[chaffmeister]

ChuckChuck:

I answered your first question but you're ignoring it.

Your turn. (please don't just repeat your questions again.)

[AdamSmith]

somebody give chuck a kick,

he's stuck in a loop.

[furrowtickler]

Supply management works in a regulated environment ie: dairy,poultry ect. It does not work where wild fluctuations in productivity are common ie grain/oilseed production in western Canada. Constant production levels are easy to regulate, it has been and will always be impossible to regulate grain/oilseed production effectivly thus supply management does not work and the CWB can not control the weather the last time I checked.
Why is this simple fact so hard for some to understand?
On top of this is quality control in an uncontrolable environment.

Dairy and poultry can ensure consistant quality of their product, as a grain producer can you?

[cris]

furthermore, The production of dairy and feathers is strictly regulated and sold into a captive market. (price makers) The CWB sells into a competitive market wide in scope with many buyers, many substitutes (PRICE TAKERS). econ 114
Dairy and feathers is an example of Canadians volunteering to pay a TAX on their food for the producers of these products. And yes it is a tax.

[AdamSmith]

Chuck SM is acceptable to producers because it will always gaurentee a profitable return. ie cost of production plus. This is wht dairy and poultry producers support SM, it has nothing to do with sticking it to free enterprise or being anti free enterprise.

The CWB can never gaurantee a price that will cover cost of production plus a profit. If it could the support for the cwb would be much higher,

I'd even support it.

But as others have said grain fields and confinement barns are completly different in almost every way possible.

The CWB controls zero on the production end other than variety registration. All they can do is pool returns from sales made into a competitive market. The cwb can also influence car allocation and terminal storage.

But all these things can have negative impacts on other grains like canola so as a grain farmers, were almost always net losers because of the cwb. But what makes it so egregious is because the cwb can't even give us an avg return on wheat. We are always a buck or more per bushel lower than avg.

So we take it on the chin with wheat and ussually we take it on the chin in Canola because of the negative impact cwb policies have on canola.

So just being anti-free enterprise doesn't cut it with real farmers, it most definatly wouldn't with a commecial dairy man or egg producer so why do you think it's good enough for commecial grain growers?

As far as the world financial collapse, it was a collapse of confidence as much as anything.

Subprime mortgages shouldn't have been allowed to exist in the first place, but it was goverment sticking their nose into the marketplace and trying to manipulate it for political reasons for the mess in the US.

The free enterprise system is working just as it should, Fanny and Freddie and AIG and a whole bunch of other companies should have went broke. That's what should happen to companies who make terrible decisions. The government got into the bussiness of picking winners and losers and that is not the role of government.

Make no mistake chucky, this is a failure of misplaced government intrusion into the free market, not a failing of free enterprise.