Cargil earnings up 62%

[furrowtickler]

Numbers out last week, mainly drivin by the Mosaic side of the business. Nat - gas is down oil is down and they have the ball$ to say fert is not going to drop and that we should buy now? We are going to sit and wait more than ever now. After the deal the huts made I can't see why anyone would buy at these prices.
Gas prices at the pump in the U.S. have plumitted over the past few days.

[Hopperbin]

Just a reminder to us all we need to pressure FNA to do something now, these orders need to be made now. Myself I have paid 2 years membership with no return on my investment.

[redbaron]

furrowtickler

can you confirm or give any numbers involved in the hut deal. I know a few numbers were batted around a while ago but missed it if there was a confirmation. I am another holding tight on buying anything. I guess we will know in spring who made the right move.

[SASKFARMER3]

Check out all the grain companies profit statements. And the truth will surface these crooks hit us hard on one front and only one front. Fertilizer. They made huge profits on Fert and Supplies. Viterra even brags about it. So if the Fert Companies statement shows huge profits and the middle man shows huge profits yet the farmers statement shows loss. Wounder who got screwed.

[bucket]

You know its high time farmers started saying enough is enough. When their balance sheets look good and ours look worse - its high time they start to hurt as well. Mayo got a big write up about saving swp but he stole a lot from employees and farmers. And the way he made a backroom poker style deal points to collusion at its finest. The companies involved all will be getting deals and phone calls (like the oil companies) for a long time to come. Really a boycott of one of those companies would hurt them and smarten them up. Who do you then send your business to. One of the remaining canadian grain companies. paterson, p&h.

Pioneer is trying to rebrand itself Richardson so people won't remember they are in with viterra.

I have no problem with companies making money as long as the ones supporting them are getting a piece of it.Unfortunately it doesn't appear that is the case.

[mbratrud]

That's the Market folks, I find it humorous when supporters of a free Market system contradict themselves when in the next breath the protest a company making money... My farm earnings were up at least 62%.... Look at the balance sheets of these companies over the last five years they are not as rosy.. They can charge high prices or Fert because people wil pay it, thats how the Market works.

I for one am happy that finally these companies are making some money we cannot afford another round of consolidation in this industry. We have seen the competitor factor drop significantly in the past 5 years. Another bad year would have prompted yet another round and then we would have had something to complain about.

Don't get me wrong I am not a fan of gouging, I just know it could have been alot worse if we lost a couple more players in the industry.

I think anyone who is supportive of free Market has to accept that at times the Market is not going to distribute money in a fair way.

My 2 cents

[mbratrud]

I was closely informed in a hut deal for Fert and actually attended a meeting that was supposed to close the deal. The meeting ended with the price being 540 per tonne for urea delivered by container in Mini bulk bags... The price was accepted with the condition that we needed to see a sample of the product... a week later the Russian supplier backed away.. obviously a hoax as Urea was trading into India from the Ukraine at 2 - 300 USD per tonne higher at that very time.

The catch on the whole thing was they wanted 2% down at signing which on the size of the deal was $120,000 which I have no doubt if it had been paid would have been gonzo!

[Burbert]

So the big guys are making money, wow, that's really terrible. They are sticking it to us, with phoney fertilizer prices. What else is new? We are hooked on the stuff, gotta have it gotta have it to keep going year after year, seeding corner to corner, every square foot of dirt has to be planted. The new way of doing things requires lots and lots of fertilizer. Have we been set up? Don't worry, you'll make up the loss, in the carbon credit market!!!! LOL

[furrowtickler]

Borbot, why not just quit? I have told this to others with the same continuos negative attitude hide in your shell type older farmer. If you think there is no future and are unwilling to think outside conventional thinking, you realy should just walk away. The rest of us will search for answers who realy want to farm to make a better life for our families and not live like a peasent.

[bucket]

mbratrud

I understand what you are saying but you are missing an important part of the equation. Sure your revenue is up but where will it be this year or next. Factor in the weather and maybe it doesn't look so good. Your costs are not known years in advance. For instance do you know what your fuel or fertilizer costs will be 12 months from now. Mosaic knows every cost years in advance from labour, nat gas, electricity etc. Thats why its tough to understand why people say its ok for them to gouge. Their costs were locked in. Their profit going through the roof is an indication of that. They produce fertilizer rain,shine, hail,snow, wind. Does your farm produce no matter what happens? Not likely. Add perspective before you make comments that it make sense for them to charge more. It doesn't make sense for them to charge more just because they can - that gouging. And if more than 1 company is in with them (like POtash) its called collusion.

Profit is ok its collusion and gouging I hate. And if you think its ok to pay 62% more for fertilizer because your farm made 62% more revenue remember you said that when your revenues drop 62% and fertilzer stays where it is or doesn't come back 62%.

[jensend]

look at it from mosaic's point of view. collusion and gouging is perfectly fine; it's called fiduciary duty. as long as there's no competition there will be gouging.

[mbratrud]

Bucket,

I completely understand where you are coming from... Don't get me wrong I get just as fired up as the next guy over high prices and as a producer we have to navigate through these silly prices the best we can. My point was it's not realistic to expect to have it both ways Sell our product in a Free Market and in the next breath expect other businesses in the sector to not take advantage of a stronger ag sector.

If we look beyond our back door the World Market will help stop the gouging. The average consumer of food likely thinks the Farmer is gouging them as they have seen food prices go up.. I don't know about you but I don't intend to sell my wheat for less because some soccer mom wants cheaper wheaties.. The Market will determine the price.. Fertilizer will not stay high for ever, as you well know it is softening with the price of Commodities.

It is obvious with the Mergers and closures and consolidation in the industry that these companies have not been doing very well over the past 10 years... The whole sector needs to be healthy.

If you were suddenly phoned by 100 buyers that wanted your wheat, would you try and keep the price low?

The panic buying from producers over summer has been a contributing factor to these prices... I know guys that have bought their glyphosate and Fert for next year... What kind of signal does that send to the suppliers?

Overall point is I think it is unreasonable to expect companies not to make money and take advantage of a fortunate sitaution... Cause you know the next year may be a whole different ball game.. There are retailers out there that I suspect are sweating bullets right now because the have Inventory that could be worth a couple hundred dollars a tonne less than what it was put in the shed for..

We as producers have to be responsible for our own destiny's for example anyone who bought Fert for next year at these prices should have locked in some new crop to hedge themselves. When Urea was $775 in June Nov 09 Canola was trading around $650 Futures.

It's to easy to blame someone else for our own mistakes.

[furrowtickler]

46-0-0 is currently commong into the gulf at around $360-380/tn, no matter how you spin it current western Canadian 46-0-0 is way,way overpriced - for now. What is FNA getting 34-0-0 for?

[jfburton]

mbratrud,How can you say thats the market when you can not sell wheat to any body you want,that is dictatorship. You can`t have a free market if everybody is not playing on the same rules.
Trouble Maker