Let's be honest.

[parsley]

Glad you have faith in the CFIA and the standards they abide by, including:

"regulatory process in Canada (CFIA)/was found safe within a reasonable risk level"

And I know I am being so terribly petty and picky but I find little comfort in the term "Reasonable risk level" when the phrase includes me my family and my friends getting mad cow from CFIA smiling upon 'cows being fed cows'.

No continuous testing when the "reasonable" became regulation. No area containment when the "reasonable" became regulation. No test project. NO transparency when the "reasonable" became regulation.

And you are satisfied with CFIA.

I'm not, charliep.

[charliep]

What is interesting to me is this whole question comes down to accessing and measuring risk of new technology. I note the act of eating involves risk - example salmonella in organic spinach. Nature also changes the risk profile - example more viralent mycrotoxins in fusarium head blight infected prairie wheat.

Do you feed the european food safety authority does a better job of assessing new technology and risk? what is it they do different and why are their processes better?

[parsley]

charliep, this is a waste of discussion time. Disease and infection and health practices are very different issues from genetic tampering.

The latter is permanent and not "treatable".

Farmer Pete in 2030, doesn't take a morning after pill after a night out on the town, to change the color of his permanently genetically altered eyes to restore them to green because his mother "had them done". Or any other of the genes in his body from the food he ate as a kid.

You want to manage the discussion based on food safely practices.

I am hopefull farmers will evaluate the ramifications of irreversible genetic change to the food farmers may or may not produce, and encourage the idea that the consumer may or may NOT purchase, based upon his/her choice because the consumer as well as the farmer will be informed of the difference and the difference will be identified. Pars

[charliep]

Will agree with your comment. The handling of BSE was a food safety issue.

[ianben]

I am glad you brought up BSE pars because this is the difference between North America and EU on GM.

BSE as a non breeding UK beef farmer had all the things you are fearing from GM. Third party injury with no real villan but absolutly devastating when your product is tainted. So yes I see the risks I have even tried to warn of the risk on here.

BSE is why consumers here feared GM and our governments have delayed introducion on their behalf and only when public opinion changes will I have the choice to grow GM or not.

With hindsight was the risk of BSE over hyped.
Thankfully the predicted cases have not materialised just like SARS, bird flu and now swine flu the worst case senario has not happened.
The millenium bug another non event, are we just lucky or is someone crying wolf to often?

I see how organic is seen as less risky to some people and I would never deny you your opinion or choice, but I see it as untested. I see the risk from ergot in bread or blight in potato greater than the risk from the tested seed dressing or spray that in my view make them safer.

Is climate change another wolf cry or the real thing?

[parsley]

The handling of BSE

for ME

is all about CFIA disregarding a % of human life so that offal could be easily disposed of.

Convenient and cheap.

There was/is no need for one human being in Canada to die from lack of forward planning for a processing process.

CFIA on Watch? I'd describe it as:

Makeshift. Irresponsible. Immoral Criminal.

But then I'm picky.

[parsley]

You have yet to view the insidious impact of BSE on human brains in Canada.

Give it twenty years and then count the brain dead. Deterioration moves slowly.

Dr, Murray Waldheim , chief coroner at Toronto, has studied brains continually as he slices them thinly in his autopsies, and places them on microscopes.

We have just begun to glimpse the effects of the CFIA's policy, imho.

[ianben]

Btw, ianben, I got an H1N1 last week.

I have not had H1N1 as I dont think it is necessary. I think I am more likely to catch something nasty in the doctors waiting room than perhaps not catch a mild flu.

[parsley]

And ianben

Organic is simply a way of growing and distributing food. It does not attempt to change nature. Or tamper with genes. Organics tracks nature's food, developed by nature, to the consumer.

Nature is cruel. Survival of the fittest. If you eat foxglove, your heart will beat so fast you will die. Nature made it that way.

Saying organic is untested is amusing. Nature itself isn't tested. Nature is designed to get along in the scheme of things. Maybe some humans fit in like socks on a rooster do, because normal people simply don't eat a cup of ergot, although I wouldn't be surprised if charliep invited me for a cup of foxglove tea. lol Pars

[ianben]

Link to uk human BSE cases
http://www.cjd.ed.ac.uk/cjdq60.pdf

I am not trying to say any deaths are OK but this is not the tens to hundreds of thousands talked of in 1996
and we are probably 20yrs on now from when UK population was at maximum exposure.

It is all about perceived risk and obviously you and I see risk differently but how do you calculate a risk you are prepared to take?

[ianben]

Nature is cruel. Survival of the fittest. If you eat foxglove, your heart will beat so fast you will die. Nature made it that way

You believe this but you took the N1H1 because?

[charliep]

I always appreciate foodnavigator and its information. Found the following on potatoes.

An interesting article on potatoes highlighting the grey areas of non traditional plant breeding.

[URL="http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Science-Nutrition/Partnership-promises-high-quality-non-GM-potatoes"]potatoes[/URL]

also note following article from a few weeks back on women and flaxoil. Am going to make the comment (knowing coming from a man) the benefits of flax oil out weigh the risks of triffid.

<a href=" http://www.nutraingredients.com/Research/Flaxseed-oil-cuts-osteoporosis-risk-in-diabetic-older-women-study">flax oil benefits</a>

[sjc]

Interesting topic. Personally I have used RR canola a few years after it was introduced and have been quite happy with the results. I am confused why the neighbours feel the need to spray twice, as I have only had to spray twice once on a particluarly dirty field which shoudl have never been seeded to canola in the first place. My land is clean enough I could more then likely not use the RR system and still have low dockage but it is the easiest system and were all the money is being spent in research. My local Co-op does not even offer a conventional canola variety anymore...

That being said the comments about the University of Guelph and them finding some micro organisms with GMO in their DNA troubles me. Does anyone have a link to this article? I would like to read up on this for curiousity sake and something to do on these cold winter days. I searched but have come up empty. Thanks.

[bduke]

Kodiak.... you stated in your second post on this
thread that you had a "feeling passion and
philosophy is going to make this an intense
discussion".

IMHO... passion and philosophy are indicators of
engagement, and catching up on the last two days
posts is very enjoyable.

Indeed.... much more enjoyable than loading barley
B-trains in -33C Monday morning!

BTW.... Our contract stated this barley would be
moved no later than Nov. 21, 2009.

Technicalities were of little value on this deal.

However.... technicalities did keep O J Simpson out
of jail for murder.... but his ex's relatives did win a
civil suit... which apparently broke him... based
upon practical evidence and principles!... LOL

Cottonpicken's lawyer comments are me haunting
again!

scj.... I commented about the micro organisms and
the RR gene.

I picked up the link on Parsley's Notebook....

www.agronomy-journal.org

It is a Research Article in Agronomy for
Sustainabilite Development.

The scientists at the University of Guelph are:

Miranda M. Hart... Jeff R. Powell.. Robert H. Gulden..
David J Levy-Booth.. Kari E. Dunfield.. K Peter
Pauls.. Clarence J. Swanton.. John N Klironomos and
Jack T Trevors.

You can click on the link to" Round Up Ready Corn"
in the GMO Corn: Horizontal Gene Transfer etc.
post.

Stay warm everyone.... Bill

[charliep]

Here is the link to the article.

[URL="http://www.agronomy-journal.org/content/view/248/42/lang,en/"]gene transfer[/URL]