Triffid et al "INDUSTRY" STILL DOESN'T GET IT

[TOM4CWB]

Oneoff,

Like a dog chewing on a bone... until it is out of sight/mind/imagination... we keep on chewing.

The flax council called me back yesterday.

I told him they had failed us... this issue has not been resolved... that it will not be until they achieve a government to government agreement on an exact tolerance.

He told me pedigreed seed must be zero to be planted in western Canada. Not .01%... the EU standard being quoted by everyone(by the way; this has always been the standard for the past 6 months)the pedigreed purity requirement is .1%) not ten of 100 times less than .01%... the EU still says zero.

After many reproductions... over a decade... the GM event is homogeneous throughout the system... not ten seeds together. CDC Saskatoon testing assures us that this is a fact.

We have taken a test originally developed to test for this GM event... and applied it in a way that could detect .01% or more of the event in each sample.... and extrapolated it down to .0025% on my certificate saying that my seed is negative.

As we said... only the seeds ground up and genetically scanned... have actually been checked... and they no longer exist...!

Putting this GM event back in a single bottle... 15 years after it has been all over the planet reproducing... is absurd... and especially since no one can prove anything was hurt from this GM event that was released in the first place.

Have we learned anything from this?

I have made this point to my MP... perhaps you could contact your MP and make it to him.

I said; "No GM event should be released until it had global acceptance."

My MP said this was absurd. Canola was given as an example of the benefit to humanity and western Canadian farmers.

Was this done for western Canadian farmers? Good question. Has the world become better fed because of all these GM events? Do less people expire than if we didn't use this technology?

We will obviously never know.

This is speculation... we only know what has been done... and it was a massive experiment... Canada and the US say it was proven safe for release and to be consumed by animals and humans.

The triffid GM event has been seeded around the globe!

A real 'Canadian' achievement!

[TOM4CWB]

Oneoff,

Upon re-reading... one must ask the question... if one plant in a million is triffid at some level... why more positive tests don't appear. If we assume there are 3 million plants per acre and these plants produce 30 times at 22bu/ac... 90m seeds/ac. at 1/m GM event that means each plant produces 30 seeds... why aren't there more positive 'Hot spot' results from testing?

Somehow... this whole thing seems crazy!

[oneoff]

The regulators and the industry obviously don't know what they have done. (Its exactly like the development of nuclear energy). Our "leaders" will not lead us out of this or any other mess (that is all set up to happen; and will happen )under the watch of the same people (or those with the same attitudes). It might look extremely good for a while; have many positives; but come close to destrying us all; or may indeed do so in the long run. A few generations is not the long run.
The good news is that some form of life will go on. It may be somewhat better or somewhat worse; but we will adapt. At the extremes there will be disasters and great boons. It sure won't turn out exactly the way anyone has planned; because all the consequences weren't examined beforehand.

[charliep]

Is triffid flax a food safety or market access issue?

I will note that GM technology is widely used around the world and accepted in industrial, animal feed and human food markets. What makes triffid flax different is that it was never approved as a genetic event in Europe (was approved in Canada and the US). If the genetic had been or were approved in Europe, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I am often curious whether Europeans eat Corn Flakes? If they do, it is unlikely these corn flakes can be said to be free of GM material. Similar comments vegetable oil that has soybean oil (even though vegetable oil has limited genetic material - that is carried with the proteins).

I likely look at statistics differently from a risk standpoint. If I compared the risk 1 in 10,000 seed triffid (or even 1 in 1,000) to the a more virilant mycrotoxin in some of the new strains of fusarium head blight, which represents a higher risk to human health?

[wmoebis]

Charliep, you mention the US. Are they testing for trifid? Are they finding any?

[charliep]

TOM4CWB

What would global acceptance look like? Who should have the final say?

Perhaps the reason I asking is because soybeans, corn, canola and other crops are making significant agronomic and productivity progress based at least in part to access to all non traditional breeding techniques. Acre are increasing based on profitability.

Cereals and other crops are lagging. To date, the implication has been lower acres of cereals (at least in North America) and more acres of other crops. Cereal production is moving to areas of the world where access to technology is more limited and they can use their cost resource base (land) to grow cereals competitively.

[charliep]

Not sure on the US. Usual practice is don't ask (read test) and don't tell. Seed sharing and cross border movement means they have the same problems we do. A caveat is their flaxseed crush capacity can likely handle plus Canada's exports to them. Perhaps the real lesson is relying on one part of the world for 80 % of what Canada grows with no value added industry at home can best be described as stupid.

[TOM4CWB]

Charlie,

Since triffid is registered in the US, unless the crusher is exporting the meal to the EU it does not matter to the commercial trade.

It has been claimed that the oil crushed from flax is a component but not the most valuable part of flax in the EU. This is why the GM event has made it difficult, flax meal is used in many products.

One would hope we don't introduce any other problems or GM events like this... our reputation as a safe secure food supplier is mud. We took a massive hit how does anyone explain how this happened? Sooo what else is going on?

[charliep]

Is the issue the genetic event in flaxseed or how the industry (which includes everyone from the plant breeding community to farmers who grow flaxseed to exporters to processors both here and in Europe) have handled the issue?

I note most countries have a very clear biotechnology policy in place and are acting on it. Is biotechnology and genetic engineering an issue with soybeans? Corn? Would someone in another country set US policy for these crops?

Does Europe have a clear policy on biotechnology (which mutagenics, hybrid breeding, etc)? Will European policy to transgenics change over time?

What is happening in China around biotech? Australia?

The concern is that every new biotechnological event seems to have to be evaluated in multiple regions and under multiple rules/processes. The direction should be to common scientifict evaluation of these events and from there international recognition at least at this level.

[charliep]

A weird comment but my understanding is that many cases, Canada's approach to Plants with Novel Traits (PNT) is more stringent that European processes. Yes, the Europeans would get more excited about a new variety based on transgenics but would likely register a new variety bred via mutagenics more easily than would happen here in Canada under PNT.