Triffid et al "INDUSTRY" STILL DOESN'T GET IT

[oneoff]

Or do they.
According to the Syngenta news report this morning


Quote----Testing Touted as the Best Method to Deal with GM Canadian Flax

Canadian flaxseed farmers will likely be faced with years of required testing in an effort to rid the market of the trace amounts of genetically modified flaxseed that have contaminated the country’s supply, participants in a tele-conference sponsored by the Saskatchewan Flax Development Commission were told March 18, says a story from Syngenta Farm. The testing on seed all the way through the supply chain is necessary to make sure the flaxseed will be accepted into the lucrative European market that has a nearly zero-tolerance policy on GM flax.

“It’s a very costly situation that we’ve suffered right through the pipeline,” said Terry James, chair of the Flax Council of Canada’s board of directors and vice president of grain merchandising with Richardson International. He said all aspects of the industry were working together to save the market in Europe including producers, exporters, European customers, government, and associations. “It’s been a community effort to solve the problem, but none of us created the problem,” said James.

He said testing will be required all along the grain handling pipeline in order to maintain that the flaxseed is free of GM contamination. “It’s a tough thing to have to ask for, but there’s no other way of preventing (GM flaxseed) from entering the European pipeline than to get producers to test,” said James. Read more of the story here


End quote

Again; it is naive and misleading to pretend that anything meaningful is being done to rid the flax industry of widespread traces of flax or anything else when you can't detect those traces. That is not to say that as time goes on there will not be more sensitive tests which will certainly create new outbreaks that can have similar shock value as the Triffid incident we are now in. Its something like BSE in cattle; but the Triffid incident is probably a way more widespread; and we have a Triffidtest that can detect down to a certain level only.
As for the industry. Most players are interested in their margins. There is money to be made with Triffid. Hell, there will be instances of bigger margins than ever before for the smart industry players. And those smart players wil take advantage of their near monopolistic position to control the Triffid situation with their own interests looked after first.

Farmers are once again tired of issues like Triffid (and the similar cases which will be repeated over and over with other plants and animals that farmers wil attempt to reproduce for food). This is shown by rapid drop off in posts to this forum and few news reports about how the Triffid situation is being handled.
We are not ridding ourselves of Triffid contamination. We are trying to get below the level of detection and hopefully sneak it into markets we think we want. ie. someone wants to keep their sales and margins up.
Some local seed growers are advertising Triffid free flax. This is an example of no knowledge on the grower's part; and lack of peer and association knowledge on the part of seed grower associations who also probably don't have the first clue about the situation (or at least the best ways to sell canadian flax now irreversibly contaminated with GM material).
Until the industry get's it head out of the sand; we as farmers are being led by incompetents. Maybe there is no head in the sand.

[charliep]

Out of curiousity, what should be done differently than is being done today.

Working farmers to use tested seed that can be demonstated to a reasonable level of scientific certainty to be triffid free. Could be common seed or certified but has to follow the same tested under the same protocols.

Finding new markets that will crush flaxseed for the European industrial linoil. This includes the US and China. Hopefully will include more Canadian flaxseed crushing in the future.

Work with the European food safety system to get the genetic event around triffid registered. Flaxseed is a safe human food and industrial crop.

[TOM4CWB]

Oneoff,

This is a simple matter of percentages.

I have a test done that assures me to an accuracy of .0025% I am free of triffid.

Is this zero? NO.

Is this reasonable to plant to meet the agreemant of .01%?

A reasonable person would say it is.

Is the EU reasonable?

You know that answer.

Don't blame the seed grower who got the stock seed from plant breeders who supplied the GM event. Pedigreed seed growers did everything according to every reasonable expected protocol. Every sample tested was below the required .1% varietial purity the seed regulations require.

So when trace levels of .0025% are found... don't blame the Pedigreed seed growers. We did NOT inject this into our seed stocks... it has been admitted the plant breeders gave it to us without our knowledge.!!!

[charliep]

Likely also need to recognize as a customer requirement both on the European side and as a way to manage risk for a grain handler.

Europe requirement is regulatory and from there, mandatory. If anyone has an idea how to meet these requirements based on something outside the current process, please share.

Grain handlers is to prevent a boat landing in Europe only to have rejected at port.

A strange comment but lots of questions from Alberta farmers about growing flaxseed on spec. People who are playing poker that the issue will be dealt with/there will be a market opportunity and acres in Saskatchewan will be way down. My highlight is for these individuals is to make sure you have thought about the marketing side and who your supply chain partner/customer will be as well as what their needs.

I don't think the European situation will sort itself out so the markets will remain US and China with some limited shipments to Europe. Long term, the real impact will be distruction of the natural industrial oil based industry including paint, linoleum and things like highway sealants. But I guess the world is much better environmentally to use crude oil based synthetic products versus natural ones (tongue in cheek).

[wd9]

The flax industry should grow a pair and say... You want flax for your paint and linoleum? Here it is. Put it in the same warehouse as your GE yeast for beer. Or all the GE corn. Oh yes, even the GE canola oil. Or all the GE medicine everybody has been taking for decades.

Flax industry needs to sell the product as it is. The debate over .00025% and .0025% will never end.

[charliep]

A couple of interesting highlights from today's food navigator.

<a href="http://www.fn-csr.com/page/home.html">corporate social responsibility</a>

<a href="http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Publications/Food-Beverage-Nutrition/ConfectioneryNews.com/The-Big-Picture/Supply-chain-transparency-only-answer-to-hostile-campaigns/?c=jYz%2BwZTNAeXmrizlYyYprw%3D%3D&utm_source=newsl etter_daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newslett er%2BDaily">supply chain transparency</a>

[checking]

As an analogy, these cumulative triffid test costs remind me of the costs of holding Royal Commissions. The outcome is always useless since the report findings are never adopted. Just gathering dust on shelves. And yes, we'll do the same jackass thing on the next grain.

It would be better to be honest to the public and admit it's all trace contaminated, and has been for the past decade. No European has been confirmed to have died from eating their grams of it, but that doesn't matter. Stop this silly testing nonsence, save our bucks, and admit it can't eliminated. We will soon find through the market what volumns are required, what price is available, and the commercial farmers will adjust their production accordingly.

[cottonpicken]

I wonder what the battle cry would be if EVERY single
person involved in ag had to give up a proportional
amount of their pay checks.

Funny how most of the straw ends up on the average
farmers back,not so funny when that back finally
breaks.

[Kodiak]

Right on wd9! The baseless arguments and intellectual dishonesty around the GM flax issue are astounding. The sight of the "flax industry" leaders all rushing around trying to appease a bunch of protectionists and political opportunists is sickening. Building an industry on that kind of basis is a recipe for stagnation and failure. Until a new approach emerges based on sound science and a solid marketing approach, the flax industry will continue to portray itself as and be nothing more than a sad collection of individuals who have proven themselves to have no vision, no leadership, and no future.

Right now, the image of the flax business that I have running through my mind are re-runs of Abbot and Costello or the Three Stooges. Except not nearly as funny.

[oneoff]

Tom and Charlie: Take your blinders off. You can tell yourselves and everyone else that you have a negative test that makes that sample and thus your seed or commercial flax Triffid free. Further you may even have widespread agreement that what you say is indeed a statement of fact.
Even with you; the testing lab result; and maybe even the vast majority of the population agreeing; you are deceiving yourselves and others. Read this carefully and tell me I am wrong. If I'm not wrong then you know what real men do.
Before you do any meaningful test you must collect an accurate sample if you want to extrapolate the conclusions to the much bigger lot you are really interested in. Then you must brinng yourselves to think of the Triffid tests as simply tests for traces of GM material. Admit that 0.1% is just a trace; 0.01% is a trace; now you are talking 0.025% which is just a trace. And make sure to keep that sample from which your past and current negative test results were drawn. Assume that up to the present all tests from that samples have indeed tested negative. Now I say you have hastily and unthinkingly concluded that your sample and your larger seed lot are "Triffid free"
If you agree that Triffid contamination is widespread; and at trace levels; and could show up in the most unexpected samples; are you going to be a little nervous when the next future more sensitive test (say 0.001%; or 0.0001% or 0.0000000001% sensitivity) is run on your previously tested negative sample which may only have had a sensitivity of say 0.025%. The future test could very well be positive. Why does this have to be pointed out to two of the supposedly clearer thinking posters on this site.
It is just wrong and foolhardy and plain stupid to be talking about Triffid free until the last Triffid seed has been disposed of. That can't be done; never will be done; and again just can't be done unless every single flax seed is disposed of; or tested to make sure that it isn't a Triffid offspring.
Again I challenge you and anyone who makes Triffid free statements.
And charlie; before I ever make my suggestions about handling such serious problems; don't you think that it would be important to have agreement with you on such basic statements as have been mentioned above.
Some statements should stand on their own without any need for debate.
But for those industry players who can stand some fresh ideas; contemplate on the posts of others just above in this same thread. I'm with them; and suspect you fellows should quit chasing Triffid free; because the idustry solutions could never accomplish that goal; and further the industry and regulators have staked our future on GM modification of every combination imaginable.
Give me some unarguable arguments regarding my analysis; or else please quit your sales pitches for the industry. You gain your credibility on future issues through your past positions on issues such as Triffid.

[oneoff]

Sorry; missed a zero in 0.025%'s above.

[oneoff]

Tom: You say don't blame the seed grower. Well when someone still says their seed is Triffid free (and there are seed growers who are saying that in printed advertisements); should those seed growers not be blamed if it ever turns out that their product is not indeed Triffid free.
What a setup for a false advertising claim; when I would think an equally effective claim of "Negative Triffid Test at 0.0025%" would convey all the necessary GM contamination information.

[charliep]

Perhaps we can agree that Canada can never make the claim to have triffid free
flaxseed. If we accept that, what are the next steps?

I note wd9 suggestion. Perhaps this is the solution.

[oneoff]

Agreed charlie. And each time we hear this Triffid free nonsense; we must each challenge it vigorously; because saying it politely just doesn't seem to get the point across. Perhaps more important is the associated change from industry and government spokesperson who suggest, direct and force the paths we must follow. They should be responsible for the decisions they force us to make.
THE NEXT STEPS (in my opinion) are to give up on the policy of appeasement on this GM issue (for cases such as Triffid which can never be undone). For the cases of GM wheat and alfalfa etc. etc. etc. which possibly are not yet loose enough to have widespresd contamination; much different tactics should be employed. The regulators and accountable researchers and promoters of those products have to be willing to take on the financial costs of legitimate damages to such sectors as organic production; and unforseen disasters that are bound to occur. The creators of the product are entitled to the rewards from their products; and should be responsible for the safety and liabilities as well. Otherwise they are not yet ready to be entrusted with what they have created.
There is just a trickle of this new GM technology let loose compared to what may yet come (my opinion is that it is sure to come; and its will happen very prematurely). Those creators and promoters may well be too impatient to handle it responsibly. The rabid "environmentalists" on one end and the irresponsible regulators; promoters from industry and even excited,( but myopic )researchers at the other end of the spectrum are not the minority who should have been making the decisions about this new technology. This technology must have significant overall benefits for society; and be handled with extreme care and safeguards. If the Europeans; or any other customer doesn't buy into those benefits; then it is foolhardy to try to force someone else's opinion on them. Closer to home; the same principle applies. There should be no right to destroy the old ways of production; because it may well turn out that we will need that old technology as well in the future. Lets not forget that there are huge business opportunities for this new technology; and destroying the current production system is very good for those positioned to support the new GM technologies.


Its the consumers and farmers (which also include seed growers such as Tom ) who live with reality; and their and our lives and financial interests should have been protected from the very beginning. If more or larger problems are created than solved; then what is being gained.
That brings me to my final point of this post. If the main purpose is to attempt to feed and sustain 9 billion people; then it is long past the time to further stress this planets ability to sustain even the current population; which is obviously too many already. There is absolutely no need for human reproduction to continue to expand to the point where a major correction will happen because of that population increase.
Of couse we should also first agree on that being one of the primary problems. Are we agreed on that point too?.

[samhill]

Flax from here goes south of 49. U.S. exports of
flax have increased spectacularly. So, we just have
another middleman. The flax still gets sold.