Triffid et al "INDUSTRY" STILL DOESN'T GET IT

[oneoff]

What kind of science is it when the complete knowledge about a crop eg. flax) is condensed into a data sheet and makes statements in no uncertain terms that flax just doesn't cross pollinate with related weedy species or other flax plants. Such a summary was done for flax; and was one of the requirements of the development of Triffid flax. Thus there is no way that GM contamination could spread; so they claimed. Since no one counts to a million once; lets alone a few trillion times; then just maybe it does cross pollinate once in a while. Also; maybe there are other ways to get contamination from GM material; like mistakes; passing out free samples; terroristic and deliberate actions; a few unconscionable unscrupulous seed growers; poor housekeeping; ignorance combined with mistakes; stupidity; ignorance; carelessness etc.
Bottom line is that there is no licence to let GM material into someone else's conventional food source. It has been some time since anyone pointed out that this should have effectively ruined the organic market for flaxseed. If it doesn't; then the organic flax food market is as big a sham as the claim to be able to rid the world of all traces of Triffid flax.

[oneoff]

Charlie: The issue is that Triffid was not supposed to be able to contaminate common flax supplies. But it did happen in a hurry; and became widespread. No one will say exactly how it happened (if anyone even knows). That is tragic and no further proof should be needed that those who thought they could keep everything under control; had absolutely no idea of what could happen.
Do you charliep have any faith that with that attitude the same GM lobby and their supporters will do any better a job with the new GM wheat or alfalfa varieties etc.? My guess is that the decision to go ahead full bore on everything was made some years ago; and there will be no turning back. The premise is that someone else in another part of the world will do it if we don't get there first.
And charlie the issue is that there should be no licence to financially ruin another sector of agriculture; or another method of production such as organic farming. Neither one of these points requires elaboration; unless they are of no concern to an industry that cares only for its corporate and personal welfare.

[oneoff]

And Tom: It's because if you plant say 0.01% trace contaminated seed you will reap 0.01% trace contaminated seed (at essentially the same contaminated level). The non-Triffid seed will produce about 0.01% of your total flax crop and the rest of what was sown will produce 99.99%. When you get next year's triffid test done (if usuing the same test as last year) you should get back test results that are not statistically significant (but only 95 times out of a hundred)
One caveat; when growing that flax crop you must not be selectively helping the Triffid seed by applying chemicals such as sulfonureas. That's why Triffid was developed in the first place; and since ordinary flax is adversely affected ; you would expect that the Triffid levels would increase in those instances as it should produce relatively more seed that the non tolerant majority of the field population.
In summary sow trace contaminated crops (which is all we have now for flax seed supplies) and farmers and seed growers will always have trace contaminated flax
Or sow 1 in one million contaminated flax (which is just a wild guess which the current test can't begin to detect) and you will never lower the contamination level below that level. Its still trace contaminated. It won't turn into a hot spot; unless you select for it is some way. It also won't go away.
Now there are some old Normandy samples stashed away in the most unlikely places. Those supplies should be worth their weight in gold; and I'm sure that the industry has already done some work on that front. Farmers will one day pay dearly to get them back.

[oneoff]

Its a way to easy to get the last word on this site. You get the feeling that very few (or no one) is listening; let alone disagreeing or adding to the debate. There is nothing worse than participating when you are really being marginalized or perhaps being laughed at or treated with disdain. Those aren't good enough reasons to take time to make a contribution.

[parsley]

It's both a market access issue and a food safety issue. And you know it is.

It is both because:
1. We've observed 27 countries give us the market access finger. You want more of the same? And people ARE interested in what they eat burbert, even if YOU are not.

Not very long ago, most families were not that up to speed on global financial matters,either, but now every pub is discussing money and credit and idiots who brought us to this point, including ourselves.

And food safety will be right up there in the discussions too. Very soon. Third world country bodies are much heathier than affluent G8 pigs at the trough eating food with chemical genes inserted in it. Munch. Munch.

Honestly. How stupid can we get? So we can grow yet more and flood the market with the already bugeoning bins multiplied by two. For what?

A few folks will make money, that's great planning and manipulating for the lucky ducky who want to cash in a moment of time, but the potential gene crossing and stacking risks, in the fields, on our farms, is so bloody stupid, it's hard for many to to debate it without disdain.

"Oh, ya, George, I just can't wait to eat another wheat resistant to this new chemical called Butplug. so I'm gonna grind up a batch on Saturday night, are ya comin over?"

Scientists know very little about how the parts that make up what we call food, fit together.

Scientists don't even know what the brain does/works.

In the scheme of things, humans think themselves clever, but we don't have a clue. Cleverness and intelligence are not the same, as someone once told me.

If we want to grow food for the world, and actually sell it, we'd better make sure we grow what they will eat.

And 27 countries have told you they don't want the Saskatchewan Crop Deveopment Centre's creation called Triffid flax. Don't want. Reject. Protest. ^(finger)

What part of that equation do you not understand?

Pars

[parsley]

And oneoff makes the point about cross-pollination, and his/her posing it should lead you to this question:

If Triffid is flourishing in every flax field...is it because it cross-pollinated and the scientist are incompetent/or liars, or is it because the seed growers are incompetent/ cheaters who multiplied it on the sly?

Take your pick, cowboys.

Either way.....apply your answer to the next modified crop lurking around spring's corner.

Makes you filled with confidence doesn't it.


Pars

[oneoff]

Its the ruination of alternate methods methods of farm production; organic production in particular (which I guess could be considered as close to traditional farming using "modern methods" as you will commonly see) and also farm production using conventional chemicals (but resisting the onslaught of GM traits in their seed varieties).

[oneoff]

Or we can all rationalize the situation and be common cheaters (and live with lying to ourselves )and also take the risk of the chance of getting caught at the level of the current test sensitivities.
In all cases our food supply will have a little bit of everything in anything.

[parsley]

Ye, it will decimate organic farming in Canada if this continues.

But, the foodies who buy organic food have plenty money to buy any kind of food from any country. Organics was originally laughed at, you know that full well, so is not about style. It's always been about food safty.

There are a group of people who actually don't like the genes in their food laced with little surprises. Or unintended consequences. Many of these people are rich and educated. Many who worked in the biotech field bought food from our market barn on the farm. Yes, they did.

You see, it's about food safety, and as I said before, Canada has trashed their credibility. Starting with the governments, (CFIA and BSE, where was the apology from them?; or is Cameron Pallet's class action the last resort?), the universities (Foundation seed from Saskatoon's Crop Development Centre has been corrupted ages ago, but where is the apology or warning to farmers?)and seed growers themselves, who, at this point should have a press release sent out to conventional farmers at the very very very least.

Understand this: Too many people filling the chairs who are making the decisions about food safety in Canada simply don't give one tinker's damn about YOU or YOUR FAMILY or YOUR FARMS.They are not decent. They maybe wear a suit and get a per diem but they are not decent.

They are supported in high style by soley profit grabbers, fly by nighters who disappear into the incorporation-woodwork every time a bad choice bites them ion the ass, and the only thing they are interested in is covering their own asses.


They need to be accountabile and take responsibility for their actions. Theses people have cost Western Canada BILLIONS in flax alone if you consider future lost sales yet to be revealed.

The present people filling leadership chairs are not worthy of the average farmers' trust.

Contaminated breeder seed at the University for heaven's sakes....... Are they so stupid they didn't know? Hardly. Or did they hide the information. When Syngenta sent contaminated breeder seed to Europe several years ago, they were forced to pay a fine.

The Europens realized instantly, if Canadian BREEDER SEED was flawed, the science had to be flawed.

The science. Too much biotech science doesn't follow scientific rules. The science of cross pollination, oneoff highlighted.

The U of S/ Syngenta got caught.

That's why Europe put up a red flag. They knew they were dealing with either dummies or the devious. I say both. I say they are people who don't even realize that Nature can outsmart them every time.

The University of Saskatchewan has corrupt breeder seed because they follow corrupted protocol because they have managers who follow corrupt science, when I look at it with a farmer's eye. Farmers should and can call a spade a spade

And food will become corrupted so it is not safe. If you are so so naive as to think Canadians will be informed of unintended consequences or of dangerous test results, go get a "thinking alignment" because you have walked once too often, waist high in your freshly sprayed fields

I don't care what you concoct in biotech kitchers for industrial use.

But for food?

No.

Pars