It's all about listening and responding

[cityguy]

Think all dml is saying is that "dual" is a soft way of saying open. It's a question of whether the CWB would survive as a voluntary organization with any sort of "power" in an open market. The OWB, with less than 10% of origination or the AWB would suggest that single desks by and large become minor players. Also - think that in Quebec it's mandatory to market Quebec grown wheat through a central agency.

[Kodiak]

Ok dmlfarmer, here’s a plan. I happen to think it has a lot of merit. It the most comprehensive and well put together one I’ve seen.
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$Department/deptdocs.nsf/all/choice13151/$FILE/MC_Task_Force_final_Report.pdf
Now before you dismiss and try to shoot it down with ideological, repeated, and tired slogans from the CWB, offer something constructive as a response.
Arguing that the OWPMB is defunct (which it isn’t http://www.ontariowheatboard.com/index2.php ) isn’t much of a response, especially since it has no basis. But even if it were true, isn’t the real question “Are farmers better off?” The farmers in Ontario have obviously not patronized their wheat board to the same extent as when it had a monopoly, this is true. But why? They had a choice, and many went elsewhere. Why?

[parsley]

If what you say is true, city guy, then both Quebec and Ontario are
chose to be inconsequential marketers.

Yet, they both chose to break awaay from the CWB.
Has it hurt them?
Has it hurt the CWB?

AnSo, if Alberta 200 farmers chose to opt out of the CWB, it should not hurt anyone EXCEPT staff hirings.

You see, farmers are accustomed to creating wealth. The CWB is accustomed to spending that wealth.

The answer to the question, "Who would get hurt?" is "high paid employees" Pars

[parsley]

Let's put it this way cityguy:

Registered seed growers in the DA, thousands pof them, and will huge acerages, market their own seed grain, and bypass the CWB,

The majority of exported feed wheat and barley is not marketed by the CWB, but is market under the Export Manufactuired Feed Agreement, with the CWB's blessing

IF the CWB argues that BUSHELS ARE THE PRIMARY REQUIREMENT for the CWB's SUCCESS, why did they abort marketing pedigreed seed grain and feed grain?

Yes, well.
Pars

[furrowtickler]

And what has the wheat board done for us lately - SFA!!! We do not need them period, they are costing western canadian farmers untold millions the last three years.
Hey stubble - truth hurts?

[JDGreen]

The wheat board would not survive. Its not competitive as a monopoly let alone in an open market environment. A dual market is a dream.

[btjadenlepp]

stubblejumper - do you seriously think
that consulting fees are a major driver
behind this debate? trust me, wheat board
policy work doesn't pay near enough to
warrant the heartache.

[btjadenlepp]

dmlfarmer: if it's all about listening and
responding, a credible argument please for
the current voter eligibility
requirements. the cwb speaks out of both
sides of its mouth on this issue - a
'shareholder corporation'? the spirit of
the legislation on governance is vague at
best.

www.farmlinksolutions.ca

[jdepape]

stubblejumper:
the answer to your question is....

nobody.


"Try not to become a man of success but rather try to become a man of value." ~Albert Einstein

[parsley]

"The wheat board would not survive"

Think about what you say Greenie!

The CWB was once the sole Canadian marketer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ontario deserted them!
Quenec deserted them!

Has the CWB survived?

Lawsey. Pars

[parsley]

Did you send DePape a note?
I did
He deserves one.

From: parsleyXXXXX
Sent: October-24-10 1:24 PM
To: cwb@depape.ca
Subject: webpage


Good Morning John,

I took some time this morning to peruse your webpage and wanted to tell you what a fine collection or information you have presented, ;and useful to farmers. Hopefully, it will fire up the free market troops, to take out a pen and make an X; a tiring daunting task for those with an adversion to hard work.

Hope you are well.
Woith kindness and Admiration,
My Best,
Parsley

[cityguy]

The OWB is effectively a non-participant in the marketing of Ontario wheat and it's safe to say that basically all Ontario farmers are OK with that. The little bit of wheat that is grown in Quebec is mandated to be sold through the Regie de something (my french is terrible) and I can't imagine that all Quebec farmers are Ok with that, but that's how they "democratically" voted.

I haven't a clue what the rules and regs are with regards to exporting seed wheat and barley but suspect that the volumes are fairly small (less than 100,000 tonnes ???). You tell me.

I'd also guess that the majority of exported feed wheat and feed barley is done through the regular channels (CWB direct or through AE's) and very little is done as manufactured feed. Stand to be corrected so point me to the stats/numbers that would suggest otherwise. charliep can act as arbitrator on this one.

Long story short, maybe a voluntary CWB survives in an open market, maybe it doesn't, but that's the beauty of an open market. But "dual" it ain't and I don't think the choice people did to rely on that sort of weasel words.

[dmlfarmer]

Thanks Kodiak for bringing up the task force report. I am very familar with it and refer everyone to page 10 section 2 "what is marketing choice." Specifically: "“Marketing Choice” is a better term to describe the new environment than “dual
marketing”. The latter term implies to some that the existing marketing approach (a CWB with
monopoly powers) could co-exist with an open market approach. This is not possible."

This is my point. Yet people (now jdepape) still insist that a dual market can work Without a monopoly you have an open market. And whenever I hear someone say dual market I ask how it would work. No one has ever been able to describe anything other than an open market to me. I am still seeking an answer.

And you last question is basically the same as my first question to jdepape. Why is the CWB monopoly not working. Because I think we can agree if the CWB is not working as a monopoly chances are it will never be able to compete in an open market; as Ontario and Australia have discovered.

[parsley]

2000 googled handy:

Source: Animal Nutrition Association of Canada. 2000.


•Total sales represent over CDN$3.5 billion (global shipments of livestock and poultry feed products, excluding pet food)
•Approximately 8800 people employed by industry in manufacturing units

•Estimated total complete feed equivalent required to feed all livestock and poultry in Canada is 21 to 23 million metric tonnes

•Based on complete feed equivalent, requirements by volume for various species are:

◦Hog 36%

◦Beef 29%

◦Dairy 18%

◦Poultry 14%

◦Other 3%

•Approximately 50% of the overall complete feed equivalent volume required to feed all livestock and poultry in Canada is manufactured on non-commercial on-farm mixing establishments

•Swine, dairy and poultry feeds account for approximately 85% of the complete feeds manufactured and sold by commercial manufacturers in Canada

•There are an estimated 520 commercial feed manufacturing establishments in Canada:

◦Atlantic 5%

◦Quebec 34%

◦Ontario 33%

◦Prairies 23%

◦British Columbia 5%

•The industry relies on imports from the United States, Europe and Asia for the majority of the high value single micro-ingredients, i.e. vitamins, trace minerals, amino acids, animal health pharmaceuticals and other micro feed additives, used in most feed products as there is virtually no vitamin production in Canada and the pharmaceutical fine chemical industry is limited.

•Exports into the United States are primarily confined to cross-border movement of complete feeds and originate mainly in eastern Canada from Ontario and Quebec and in the west primarily from Alberta. Exports of value added specialty products such as milk replacers, mink and fox feeds, horse feeds and some specialty micro-premixes, are expanding in Mexico, Latin America, South America, Europe and Asia.

•The Canadian feed industry is comprised of establishments that vary in size and manufacturing capacity from relatively small mills to large sophisticated and vertically integrated operations. Annual sales of operations vary from $1 million to over $130 million.

[gustgd]

First of all it's Asinine that we are forced to vote on private property.

Second
Since Goodales Liberals are making us vote on property who are we calling farmers? Wayne Easter himself told me that the 40 tonne limit is reasonable. Why has it not passed and we could get paid sooner.

dmlfarmer I want to see the CWB's plan for barley they obviously have one after 2007. They were not going to close the doors, and flying by the seat of their pants is probably not it.