Why NO vote on CWB 'Single Desk'?

[agstar77]

Dual market = no CWB. Therefore no choice. It is that simple. Anyone who diputes that only has to look at Australia. A stand alone CWB could not survive as anything more than a marginal marketer against vertically integrated grain companies, who can afford to lose money at the bottom and make it up on processing. Anyone who believes otherwise is living in a fairytale. Unless the dual market CWB forms an exclusive partnership with a Bunge or Viterra it is doomed.

[jdepape]

Agstar:
If this is your answer to my question "Why should the fate of the CWB be decided by farmers?", it failed.

I understand why you think all this, but why should farmers get to vote on it?

[bucket]

cchurch/agstar

Are you the guys that support the cwb and when the cwb can't fill a boat phone all your friends of the cwb and find out all your production still can't fill the boat?

I find it annoying when cwb supporters with their "better than everyone else attitude" tell farmers what to do, but when the shit hits the fan like when the cwb pays millions in demurrage they are pretty quiet. Or can't gather the production to support the cwb that they like to force on everyone else.

It is pretty simple, if the cwb had the support you two claim, the cwb would never pay demurrage or be caught in a short squeeze which is coming again, because the many supporters would be able to fill the commitments the cwb makes. The fact is, there is not enough cwb supporters with the production to fill the contracts the cwb makes. And since the cwb has made no effort to listen to production farmers their fate is set - they are doomed.

[agstar77]

Because we are the ones affected by its demise not the urbanites that voted in the clons. As far as I know the government is not subsidizing the CWB directly so why should they dismiss it without the farmers running it have a say. I don't see them ordering open running rights on the rail lines for true competition and a free market. I don't see T4 whining about that.

[bucket]

If the government doesn't have a hand in the cwb, then why does it have to ask for money everytime? And really how does those pensions work for the employees?

If farmers were paid upfront with a comparable price to what US farmers got paid the cwb would have the support they beg for. This system of 25 percent delivery and 50 percent of the total value is stupid. In case you don't know, you are financing other countries grain purchases. Your farm, and you don't get a reasonable rate on it.

Think man, god gave you a brain.

[TOM4CWB]

Agstar77,

When the CWB pool returns... are $3.25/bu for my soft white wheat in 2009-10... I just got paid out... what do you think that did for our family farm? $4.75 for CWRS wheat... that should have been at least $6?

You DON"T think this effect costs every Canadian in lost income and taxes?

It is the CWB Act... that overrode every provincial statute and property right... to confiscate our grain... WITHOUT fair compensation...CWB Minister Goodale insisted be maintained by Federal Govenor in Council ORder... May 1996.

Should I have a vote to tell you to sell your soybeans at a low price and who to sell them to?

Are you just kidding around... ... or are you truthfuully not understanding what the CWWBBB is doing to our family farms?????

[johnsmith]

I agree with agstar's last point.If the jig is up for the CWB(finally, we didn't vote it in, so no vote), then the jig should be up for all other aspects of the grain industries, railcap regulations, grain commission, etc, if you're openning the door to competition, it should be wide open not half ass. For an example, The Crow. Winnipeg was a slaughter house mecka, now gone and that was a slow death, the crow got shot but then wheat in MB. started dying a slow death to, why, because they didn't clean house on all fronts. Wide open boys, lets go.

[jdepape]

Agstar:

Thanks for the answer: “Because we are the ones affected by its demise not the urbanites that voted in the clons. As far as I know the government is not subsidizing the CWB directly so why should they dismiss it without the farmers running it have a say.”

I have shown that the CWB costs the western Canadian economy dearly – as much as a billion in some years. That means lost tax revenue that has to be made up elsewhere (like from all those “urbanites”). So, as you say, the government may not be subsidizing the CWB, but everyone’s paying for the lost wealth creation.

Until you can prove this to be wrong, logic and fairness demands that major decisions about the CWB should NOT be left up to those that THINK the CWB creates wealth (without REALLY knowing whether it does or not) and THINKS they are the only ones affected.

Do you really think its right that the future of your farm business should be decided by someone who’s motivation is to make sure you don’t get a better price? (Yes, they are out there – I’ve talked to them.)

Besides, we all know that a farmer vote won’t prove anything except that the farm community is split on the subject. And we know that already.

Let’s say we get a question everyone can agree on, a voters list everyone can agree on, and a voting process everyone can agree on. (I can guarantee that that will never happen, but let’s assume it does.) Then let’s say the vote goes 52% in favour of keeping the single desk.

I think what you and other guardians of the single desk would say is, “There. We won, so the single desk stays. End of debate”

You will have forced your ideology on the other 48% - without any proof that there is any benefit to it.

If the vote went the other way, the debate would continue as well.

<b>The result of a farmer vote will not prove anything nor will it end the debate – therefore it will be a useless exercise.</b>

What if we took a vote on which bank gets a monopoly on all farm business? You like your bank but it loses and another one wins the vote. You are then forced to use the one bank with "single desk farm financing". If it does a lousy job or comes at too high a cost, there’s nothing you can do about it.

Perhaps the question of a farmer vote should be “Do you want to be more successful at farming?”

I can only assume the results would be an overwhelming YES (although I’m not sure it would 100%).

Then the question becomes “how do you make that happen?” It would be irresponsible to make assumptions about the best approach – you would want whatever approach you picked to bring absolute bullet-proof, undeniable, irrefutable value.

That is what we are lacking on the CWB file. No proof of benefit or value. Just wide-eyed assumptions about “market power”. And evidence to the contrary.

Until that changes, the future of the CWB should absolutely NOT be left up to farmers.

[TOM4CWB]

Agstar77,

We have a Super Bee to arbitage the rail freight rates. If CP does a bad job... we haul to a CN line... IF the CWB does not stop us from doing this.

AND

If CN and CP both do a lousie job... we can haul south across the border to the US... and pay even more to some US railway... to get much more for our wheat of durum... IF the stupid CWB didn't get in the way of us arbitaging the frieght market.

The CWB is totally wrong.

IF the price inside the 'designated area' of Canada is LOWER than outside that CWB jurisdiction... IT IS the FAULT of the CWB. Then the CWB turns around and confiscates the difference between the price inside and outside the CWB marketing area... and sends me the bill... when the CWB recked the market in the first place?

HOW crazy and stupid is that for a 'single desk' monopoly system?

Comand and Control Government.

CN Rail went from one of the worst least efficeint railways under government control... to the most efficeint and best railways in the world now it is privatised!!!

You are kidding us Agstar77... right?

[Kodiak]

Agstar, you say, "The fate of the CWB should be decided...."

Why is all this about the CWB? Why should it be "decided" by a group?

Shouldn't it be about your farm and mine - about economic interest? We miss the point when the discussion is about the CWB, and not about farms, markets, exports, value added and economic growth.

When it becomes about "the fate of the CWB", the critically important issues get missed.

[BTOfarmallll]

Anyone see Burbert around??? Ever since the Election results & the news on the Comedian Wit Bored, he has not been around. Last time I talked to him he was doing the corners with his Massey Ferguson 360 Diskers seeding wit. Haven't heard from him Since. Hope the Old **** didn't hang himself over the Bored's demise.......

[FarmRanger]

There is no way anybody should ever be allowed
to vote away my property rights. What kind of
banana republic are we running here anyway?  If
the CWB wants my grain, they should have to
compete for it.  

In addition, if, in the coming months, they use my
money to fight against my property rights, they'll
go on my "I won't deal with you no matter what
you say you'll pay" list.