So are we building it?

[countryguy]

Project N looks good to me. I'm in. Are you?

[dave4441]

In for what?

[vvalk]

I think this needed to be up and running by now to
be successful. In 4 years we will have a lot of
nitrogen on the market and this new plant will just
be getting going. There is nitrogen plants being
build everywhere right now.

[countryguy]

Even with the few plants being built North America will still not be able to meet it's own N requirements and will still have to import some. Those plants are also NOT going to bring the price of N down at the farmgate level.

[stubblejumper]

Becancour scores giant fertilizer plant

There was finally some good news for the struggling economy of Becancour. The biggest fertilizer cooperative in the world is joining a Quebec coop to build a fertilizer plant in Becancour. The Indian Farmers Fertiliser Cooperative announced the 1.2 billion project this morning in Quebec City. There will 200 permanent jobs if the nitrogen plant is approved after an environmental review. But critics say that's not enough to compensate for job losses from the planned closure of Gentilly-2 nuclear plant.

[westsider]

Countyguy. Is western Canada currently a net importer or exporter of nitrogen fertilizer?

And by how many mt? that may help us understand your argument on this subject.

[dave4441]

This isn't about building a fert plant, it is about
membership sales. When we gonna figure this
out. It's. Lead in to the Crop Production Show.

[countryguy]

Stubble that plant is not producing for North America. They are coming here and using our cheap gas to produce themselves fertilizer and taking it all back home.

Westsider North America as whole is a net importer by I believe 7 million tons. Lots of room for production, especially production that is guaranteed to be used.

Dave, suit yourself. If you're not interested in buying nitrogen at wholesale and receiving dividends on total sales don't join. Keep bending over for the big boys. Out of curiosity do you know what it costs to produce a ton of urea?

[vvalk]

Costs about, give or take, $180T. That is why
there is plants being built all over the
world. Why build a expensive plant here,
especially in Quebec to just ship it back
home. There is a lot of better places closer
to home. Doesn't make much sense. We export a
lot of N to the USA and shipping from around
the world to W Canada is realitively cheap
compared to the margins being made today. Not
only that, do you really beleive this FNA
project will sell you urea at cost? Don't
think so. They will sell it at the market
and send you a dividend based on your VERY
small percentage of ownership.

[vvalk]

Gas is is cheap compared to many places but
the middle east still has cheaper gas and
much closer to asia.

[Hopperbin]

FNA needs to do something or they will die in my opinion. Getting to the point of starting construction is still far off also. Is there any info meetings currently? Or does the farmer just through money into a black whole for now? Also if FNA screws this one up they will also be up shit creek, so I think I am very strongly interested to be one of the initial investors but currently not yet.

[Hopperbin]

Since at the moment there is so many non producing natural gas wells that does it not make sense to build it in the middle of say one hundred years of purchased natural gas supply, just my opinion buy the wells in an area to give one hundred years supply build own ifrastructure to deliver the natural gas and the N should even be cheaper to produce, to me this would sell me on the idea just my out of box thinking.

[vvalk]

I think it takes 20GJ to make a tonne of
urea. Could be wrong though

[Hopperbin]

A news article,

A Quebec farmers’ co-operative is launching a joint venture with a leading Indian counterpart to build a $1.2-billion nitrogen fertilizer plant in Bécancour, a community reeling over the decision by the PQ government to close the province’s only nuclear power plant.

The Quebec-based Coop fédérée and the Indian Farmers Fertiliser Cooperative (IFFCO) signed an agreement of intent on Tuesday as part of the first phase of a project that could create between 200 and 300 permanent local jobs.
The Quebec government, through its venture capital arm Investissement Québec, is injecting $5-million to help finance the initial $20-million feasibility study. The province will also help finance the public hearings process and environmental assessment studies that should be completed by 2014. Construction is expected to begin that year, with a projected production start set for 2017.

U.S. Awasthi, managing director and CEO for IFFCO, said that after examining 50 potential sites, Bécancour was chosen because of the accessibility of natural gas needed in the production of urea, the essential product used in nitrogen fertilizer. He added that Bécancour, located in central Quebec’s agricultural heartland, also provides the proximity of a port on the St. Lawrence River. And it offers access to railway and major road transportation networks to facilitate distribution of the fertilizer in Quebec, eastern Canada and the northeastern United States.

“We expect to make profits but we don’t expect to make huge profits,” Mr. Awasthi said, emphasizing the co-operative values shared with its Quebec counterpart. “Canada is a good choice because Canada has an abundance of resources and fertilizer [production] needs energy.”

He added that the Quebec government’s decision to shelve the development of shale gas was not an impediment on the co-operative’s decision. He insisted that current supplies through Gaz Métro Inc. could meet fertilizer production demands for the proposed project.

The plant, the first of its kind in the province, will have the capacity to fulfill Quebec’s annual demand of 500,000 tons of urea per year. Manish Gupta, IFFCO’s director of strategy and joint ventures, said growing demand for urea worldwide eventually may lead to the construction of a second plant, either in Bécancour or elsewhere in Canada.

“This is the first large scale plant in Quebec,” Mr. Gupta said. “Because of the way natural gas is moved on the continent, there is a lot of interest in setting up urea facilities in North America. We believe we are the first to hit the road but there are many people trying all over the continent. It is our intention in the future to expand as it is our intention to expand all over the world. But we are taking it one step at a time.”

[wd9]

We need to come up with a better way of
taking atmospheric N and putting it in the
ground. Instead of building a plant, we
should pay for research and won the
technology.