OK lets all put money in for the FNA seed capital

[bucket]

That's right and maybe someone could explain how federated co-op now has the 4th largest refinery in Canada.

Oh, oh maybe someone doesn't want to talk to a major player in the oil and gas business for a new enterprise with massive memebership and resources to build a competetive plant.

Just an example of how partnering might work in the case.

Yara, agrium and cargill/mosaic are big but I'm not sure too many companies refuse opportunities to build to their base.

The distribution system for the co-ops would be an easy fit and a plant south of belle plaine would be perfect. Hits the major markets with an reasonable infrastructure.

[cottonpicken]

Global natural gas price is a funny thing,its not the
same all over.

I'm guessing but i don't think you would need to buy
a very big producer and i know one these companies
could easily be taken over,they are at rock bottom
and struggling.

[dave4441]

THere are gas wells in Shackelton field that have effectvely been abandonded. There is a receiver or two that have gas wells they can't sell. Heard Action Energy was offered to Ererplus for $1 and they didnt take it.

THe Co-op idea is a good one i think. As an investment i dont think so. Was only a couple years ago that N was 36 cents/lb. Bought 2 years supply. It will cycle back. And it is more likely to cycle back long before the 1 billion in construction is spent. What then?

[wd9]

Potential fertilizer plant investors,
fingers on yer buzzers......

How much anhydrous is produced pipelined
from Hydrogen off gas (HOG) plants and
how will FNA be accessing H2?

FNA gonna crack their own? Sell the
'anes' back to Nova? Outbid Agrium on
the H2 lines? Get cheap power from
Manitoba and use electrolysis? Solar?
wind turbines?

Couldn't find any real information on
FNA's website.

50% comes from AB, right down the street
from cracking plants.

[nicolaas]

there have been a few small anhydrous plants shut down in alberta over the years. The technology is far from cutting edge. THese small plants produced their own hydrogen from the natural gas via a catalyst. I gave FNA 15K for the failed terminal bid, I recieved it all back. I think the more players in the market, the better. Let competition do its thing.

[Hopperbin]

What do all us care about what about have done this or didn't do that. This deal is all about this is where its at and Someone ****s up really sucks to be them.

[Hopperbin]

I guess someone can take this as a threat and all the power to them. Been there done that. In the end if there is not 4000 seed shares and only 1000 i am going to be very pissed. Us seed shareholders are here for the long haul in my opinion who ever the **** you guys are. And I think this is supposed to happen fast like this spring. This is my thinking and I will be pissed and very pissed if things do not happen as things are supposed to be ahead of schedule.

[dave4441]

This is why I try not to drink and post anymore!

[bobofthenorth]

>Kathy Mathers, vice president of >public affairs for The Fertilizer >Institute, said the cost of natural >gas represents 70 percent to 90 >percent of the cost of producing >nitrogen. Natural gas is the heat >source in the chemical process that >produces nitrogen.

Its more than the heat source - its the source of the 3 H atoms that get bonded to every N atom in order to make NH3. And Kathy is right as far as she goes, natural gas is far and away the largest portion of the cost of making ammonia. Its the only required raw ingredient if you discount the air that is used as a nitrogen source.

What she may not have mentioned is that you can take the current cost of natural gas per mmbtu and multiply that by 30 or 35 to get a good idea of the cost of a tonne of NH3. You do the math and come back to tell us how little margin there is right now in the nitrogen fertilizer business.

I'm a big fan of increased nitrogen production in western Canada. If we could ever turn North America into a net exporter we'd all be better off (well not ALL - Agrium wouldn't be all that happy). But I don't think eff'n eh is likely to make it happen.