Follow up on VR

[craig]

Justed wanted to give guys a heads up on what we are finding with soil tests on our farm this fall. Our low ground has produced very poorly the last two years and this fall is showing up with lots of left over nutrients. This can and will be an issue for next year because the range of nutrients over the field will be wider. A blanket rate will over fertilize the good ground and in all likely hood short change some of the middle ground that produced good crops. We likely would not have picked this up if we did not zone soil test. Hope that low ground starts to dry up and the water table starts to go down a little. Not surprising that we are disappointed with our yields when our best ground is producing so little.

[westsider]

Do you farm on irrigation?

Reason i say this is no one has been able yet to prove this theory makes any money unless you can nail down precip and heat units!

i have asked old profs and guys that have been in the soil business for decades and also happen to farm and they just shrug shoulders and say "not on my farm". Now these guys know alot more about soil /fert/ crop production than most of these companies combined so i am likely to take their advise.

Here in Eastern Alberta there are a few guys getting into it but not alot willing to take the plunge on the whole farm. The local independent...nope i mean CHS ...has some guys doing it that seem happy. But i guarantee there is more that truthfully say "um dont think i got my money back" also have heard some of them asking for their money back.

not trying to be negative here but would like someone to post some info that is actually factual and shows a benefit. Because if that happens i will be the first guy getting the Morris Drills set up for VR for sure!

[farmaholic]

Craig: gauging by the number of responses I would say very few are prescription farming. I don't know of anyone in my area doing it. Some may not be able to afford the technology, some may have too many acres to be bothered, some like myself will probably be satisfied finishing their farming career with the blanket applications we've been doing for years. I see the merit in it, land like mine with rich low spots, average midslopes and depleted knolls would probably benefit from it but I'm not willing to invest in the technology to do it or want to be bothered. I've often wondered, with land that has contrasting types of soil over short distances what happens when half a 60-70 foot drill is on a depleted knoll and the rest is midslope? But I guess that would be splitting hairs wouldn't it!! I personally think VR is for people who are looking for the next thing to do when they have everything else.

[Daylate]

$900 Urea would fast track my decision for Variable Rate, but for now its not worth the investment across the farm in our area (East Central Sask). Some of our fields in some years im sure would net better variable rate but I've yet to see the shock 'n awe factor come out of it yet from anyone in this area.
Best I've heard from anyone trying it would be a 10% N savings with no yield difference. At todays prices that would be $6/ac. on N @ 100lbs/ac. Is that worth the investment right now? Now add a 10% yield bump to that and im in.
I realize every area of W. Canada is different but this thread would be up to 30 posts by now if Urea was $900. LOL

[craig]

Appreciate the comments. I have always told guys that you need to figure out whether it has value on your farm. If moisture tends to be your limiting factor then fertility plays a lessor role in determining yield. Our situation is one where VR is most likely to have value. My comments for this coming year relate to a situation where VR has a chance to provide value regardless of what weather we get.

[ajl]

I think that you should try to vary your
seeding rate instead of the fertilizer.
The hilltops will have less background
fertility than the low spots so a
blanket application gets it about right.
The low spots should have the fertility
to support more plants per acre so you
can boost yield there by seeding heavier
and still have them mature at the same
time as upland areas. The upland areas
will not support as many plants anyways
so seed lighter up there to produce
larger seed and less straw.

[hobbyfrmr]

Craig, how does it work with hail.....or frost? Does
it somehow send over the weather summary to
the company that sold you the unit?

[ado089]

Hobbyfarmer, I spent $18/ac less on my
hailed out, wind blown hills. If you're
going follow your logic what's the point
of spending any money on a crop for fear
of the weather.

[hobbyfrmr]

Ado, the thread Craig said "
My comments for this coming year relate to a
situation where VR has a chance to provide value
regardless of what weather we get".
So, what does VR system cost per acre,per year?
Did Your $18 saving go to pay for the system?
Maybe I don't understand the statement . What
does it do if the crop freezes? Or what does it do
if it hails. Will you get erratic yield information at
harvest time? Will The pattern on the map be the
same only proportionally lower due to damage
from....well....I dunno..... the weather?

[craig]

Hobbyfarmer
Our high organic soils often can supply most of or all of the fertility requirements of the crop. If it was to remain wet like the last few years we have saved because we are not spending money on excess fertility that is not being used. It is likely of benefit if we can draw down some of this fertility overtime. Your hail and frost question applies. You are not wasting money in areas where you are not getting value for nutrients applied.If we are dry the moisture holding capacity of these soils will still likely provide us with moisture to grow an excellent crop.

[craig]

Wanted to add the following. I got into variable rate because we had a serious problem with over fertilizing our most productive soils. We did not get into it because some salesman pushed a bunch of hype on us. VR has helped us fix the issue we had. Do we get it right every year? No but that can be said for most systems because we have no control over certain variables.Many of those who say VR is of no value were also those that promoted composite soil tests which is showing to be about the most in exact science you can find. If we did not do zone soil tests we would likely not have realized that we were building nutrients on our lower ground. If that is value to others in a similar situation then at least they can adjust accordingly. VR is not a silver bullet. It is a work in progress that is unique to the farm where it is used. If you think it is snake oil you are entitled to that position.

[hobbyfrmr]

Thank you for the better description.

[ado089]

Hobby, I make my own maps using
elevation so my only extra cost is a
couple extra samples. My problem is
opposite of Craigs where as my land has
alot of high ground the has very little
potential even in wet years so I aim for
20bu/ac on them and put the extra money
towards the well drained solid
performing land. The low spots vary from
year to year spending on the previous
crop but I generally come off my top
rates due to both flooding and in better
years there is just more provided by the
soil.

[blackpowder]

Any thoughts on the system that uses satelite imagery - biomass?
Having some fields with very poor areas. Solonetzic eg. Would consider only 2 or 3 rates and vary the bander blend only? Pay for itself? maybe just?
Just hate putting $85 on an acre that can use half or less.

[ado089]

I'm not a fan of them. I find they tell
you that there is a problem but give
little insight to what or why and don't
distinguish between areas that can be
fixed or just need to be ignored. Most
guys I know that have had a bad
experience with VR comes from satellite.
My first cheaper or self starter, choice
would be topo with a water model. Veris
or em-38 is well worth the money if
you're serious.