Newco Front...Just because it's quiet doesn't mean that producers means other parties are deciding f

[Rareearth]

I'd vote for the eBay rating system, accountability,
responsibility, respect

[SASKFARMER3]

Take it we were used 27000 by a feedlot, went
one day to collect got 13500, check was good.
Never got a dime more. Should have worked
then, I mean went back and talked one more time.
Take the money!

[hobbyfrmr]

dave4441, I am not sure if a 1%er is good or bad.
Is it a compliment, or a jab?
Nonetheless, this is a marketing forum and I am
trying to help. Getting paid is very important.
I have made $140,000 in sales to 2 new buyers
due jan 15 of 2013. They are both licensed and
bonded. Honey badger don't care. I am covering
my ass. $140,000 is a fart in the wind for today's
big operators, but my little two bit operation
NEEDs that money. That is how I live. I could
never survive, paying a lawyer to settle for half
that value. Game over. Bad farmer, go get a job!
Right or wrong, I have used a/r insurance for new
buyers, and situations where I think there is a
chance of volatility. Ie. times of high prices but
longer terms like 60 days after delivery.
Business people have been using this stuff for
years. They did not have the convenience of a
CGC or a grain act. They have to go and figure it
out for themselves.

[charliep]

hobbyfrmr

When you say $140,000 due January 15, I assume delivery is at the same time. Not sure on recievable insurance but CGC bonding rules have the deadlines between delivery and getting paid. I always get the periods mixed up (60 or 90 days) but it is the conversion of someone who has not been paid to being a short term unsecured creditor. Likely you are well aware but too many people I know have defered payment for tax purposes only to find out the money wasn't available when they wanted the money.

[hobbyfrmr]

I will finish delivering all grains by end of next
week. I get the settlement sheet, or receiving
report or elevator slip with the unload details on it.
Then, I write and present an invoice to the buyer,
with the payment due date on the invoice. I
usually stay within 45 days from time of delivery. I
present the contract, unload details and invoice
documents to a/r company and then they start
coverage. Withn a few days they have sent me an
invoice for covering my transaction. I pay that with
Paypal. My last post should have read Jan 4,
2013. My farm payments are due Jan 15!

[charliep]

Not 100 % sure but you would be close to being outside the CGC requirements for bonding access. I would want recievable insurance on this one for sure. I like to keep the time between when a farmer dumps grain and when they get paid as short as possible with same day best but not practical and perhaps realistic in business transactions. Wanting to be a grain marketer and not a short term unsecured creditor.

[charliep]

Here is the CGC link for Newco situation.

<a href="http://www.grainscanada.gc.ca/media-medias/press-presse/2012/2012-11-23-eng.htm">CGC release</a>

Note the following.

Begin quote: “When a licensed company is unable to pay producers, we work to ensure producers receive compensation,” said Elwin Hermanson, Chief Commissioner of the Canadian Grain Commission. “While we license primary, process, terminal and transfer elevators and grain dealers, we do not license companies such as feed lots. Deliveries made to unlicensed companies are not covered by our Payment Protection Program.”

Rules for compensation
The Canadian Grain Commission reminds producers that they must follow and meet certain rules for compensation under the Payment Protection Program. Producers are only covered by a licensed company’s security for 90 days from the date they delivered their grain, or 30 days from the date they received a cash purchase ticket.

Compensation of 100% can not be guaranteed, and in the case of Newco Grain Ltd., eligible producers only received 95% of the amount they were owed. End quote.

[Burbert]

Why do framers insist on dealing with
these weirdos, and weirdo companies.
Sell to a known buyer get yer cheque and
cash it. Er do these guys promise ya
higher prices, fer yer feed? Then when
they can't pay and belly up, the
whinning and snivelling starts cousin ya
should be protected in some way or
other. The Newco site on the net has
the president promisin all sorts a
things and then blessing ya fer dealing
with his company. To me thats a Red
flag that says framer yer aboot to get
hosed!!!!

[sumdumguy]

Burbert, I agree, some have reputations. I know
people who were burnt bad by a fraudster and
they went right back to dealing with him. Maybe
they got their money from him and I didn't? There
were about 15 who were stung by this guy and
he is back in operation, in the same industry. Go
figure, makes me wonder.

[oneoff]

The bond payout was via Government of Canada cheques. There is no need to get up and run to cash them. Take a deep breath at least. There is as close to zero percent of any stop payment as you will ever see in your lives.

When you have a clear head; contemplate a dumb ass accountant who apparently given the opinion that cashing those cheques will forfeit any further claims against the insured.
Immediately call Bull Shit and check out if your gut instinct says that the bonding company and still outstanding producer shortfall of bond couldn't possibly be forfeited by cashing the government cheque. Do this by contacting the CGC writer (and his supervisor who authorized the wording of the letter and the mailing to all eligble producers.) You will then have all but undeniably confirmed the incompetant opinion of that accountant; or the deliberate/inacurrate/otherwise spreading of confirmed Bull Shit.

Point this out to the owner of Newco; contact the bonding company Atradius. You will then be the second unsecured creditor to do so; and probably get to talk to a real human being; that probably genuinely appreciates getting some fresh information that maybe has a snowballs chance given the right coditions and some luck.

Be half assed concise; promote a relatively simple, yet sensible proposal that is a potential win-win situation for all unsecured creditors that are at obvious risk of all getting pennies on the dollar.

. I argued in a logical way that I am an unsecured producer who is still owed some thousands of dollars. My estimate is that the 120 some odd peers are now owed approximately only $150,000 which is a relatively small fraction of the $2M that Atradius is out of pocket (again by my estimation)
I very calmly argued unsecured creditors such as myself should be entitled to be similarly negotiating with Newco (as is suspected to be happening between Atradius and Newco even as I write this; and may well be concluded within days). However; if Atradius could see fit to reimbuse the less than 5% still owing to eligible producers; that while they might then have a $2.15 M claim instead of $2M; that the good will and sheer relief of having settled with all "eligible producers" might well be money well spent. It would immensely simplify Atradius negotiating with or taking control of the insured or putting them into receivership or whatever direction they chose.
Perhaps of even more importance, I suggested was that there is a new insurance based guaranteed payment system coming down the same CGC pipe; as sure as anything. And the front runner is probably none other than their company, Atradius. What better start could an insurance/bonding company come up with at this strategic time where that very decision is going to be made?
I was thanked for my concern and suggestion (I believe sincerely); and only promised that as soon as he got off the phone that he would "pointedly" relay my idea to his boss; and that nothing else was guaranteed. Now I like that kind of honesty; and I said so.

Within 10 minutes; I am told my phone rang; and I am told that the proposal was received along the lines of "like your suggestion; some reason to feel a little encouraged and it seems like there is a bit of development occuring".

Now obviously no one knows what will shake out; but you know that bit of encouagement warms my little heart. I believe if there were even three or four more thoughtful reasonable representations to the movers and shakers; the tide might well be overestimated as a groundswell movement.

All I know for sure is that the minimum is all that has happened in the last half year; and I've tried to put my best foot forward with what is more than fine tuning some premature decision without first considering a wide array of alternatives.

And that in no way can come from any board table that has every right arm attached to the pulley system that carries the motions unanimously; every time. See some other recent posts (of other persons) if you need some confirmation.

What I also keep getting confirmed is that next to no one in this day and age takes the initiative to talk to their supposed competitors; perceived enemies or the rich and powerful who must eat and clothe themelves in some mystically differnt way than simple commoners.

When you finally make contact with those people; you will most often have met some interesting stimulating human being. And they just love to have some unique ides bounced off them. And you will get the same in return.

Try it.

[LWeber]

I'm curious Oneoff:

Did you deal directly with Newco - as in the contract came from their office to you or did you deal/negotiate through a third party?

[oneoff]

Thanks for the CGC link Charles...

I note the date, in fact nice and fresh news.

But its really two week old stuff; but agreeably much better late than never. A lot has happened in the last few days. And there might even be a bit of momentum being gained.


If you want some up to the minute stuff on which you most likely pretty well bet the farm; you need to sort out the red herrings from the probable reasonable outcomes; and the 100% bull shit propaganda from potentially lasting desirable solutions.

And that takes some unbiased analysis after confirmations of much deeper research of all sides; and especially those not normally consulted.

How many have clicked on shaney's topic about CGC changes.

Probably an opportune time for EVERYONE to get "pen to paper" or better " keystoke to email" and send you comments and suggestions to the CGC

See shany's links in his topic concerning the CGC process for input.