Part Deux

[oneoff]

Sincere apologies to Tom....but OH MY GOD!!!!!!!

Under risk Management.....the first site says:
Atradius (which sure as "XXXX" is who the Federal Gov't has chosen as your new insurance company for replacement of the CGC bonding system)....

"Remove the risk of non-payment. Guaranteed 90% minimum, on time payment wherever your marketing takes you... Learn More"


So farmers should wish to pay someone else's premiums and get in the order of 90% owed to you. WOW!!!!

Don't like that....Then sign up with Western Union. You know what eBay says about Western Union payments (of course taking into account that Paypal is closely linked to eBay).
Anyway Paypal does work and Western Union just strikes me a very poor choice for any farmer to get into bed with. Personally I won't waste a second investigating that supposed alternative. You know it can sometimes costs more than any long term benefits are worth...

Those are the options so far; and I for one am not impressed. But hobby I do sincerely thank you for the post; and these may very well be the "viable" options available at this time. Clearly Puritone's example; and Larry's ne news and Newco creditors that weren't covered by the bond and dozens of other ripped off farmers and businessmen are put in unacceptable poitions that will continue as long as farmers TOLERATE not being IMMEDIATELY paid.
Still seems better for all to get paid upfront. Those who can't pay... then why do you insist on doing business with those who are in effect plainly saying they can't/won't pay up at this time.

What part of can't/won't isn't understood?

[oneoff]

Her's what no other than Industry Caada (none other than a Federal Government web site has posted about Bissimda


Last Updated: 2011-03-14

Bissma Pacific Inc.
Company information



Legal Name: Bissma Pacific Inc.
Operating Name: Bissma Pacific Inc.

Mailing Address
440 Kingston Rd
PICKERING, Ontario
L1V 1A4
Location Address
440 Kingston Rd
PICKERING, Ontario
L1V 1A4


Telephone: (905) 839-1317
Fax: (905) 839-9331
Email: action@bissma.com
Website URL: http://www.bissma.com


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Contact information

Pauline Roadhouse
Title: Data Provider
Telephone: (905) 839-1317
Fax: (905) 839-9331
Email: action@bissma.com


Magdi Bissada
Title: President
Area of Responsibility: Management Executive
Telephone: (905) 839-1317
Fax: (905) 839-9331
Email: bissmapacific@home.com



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Company description

Country of Ownership: Canada
Year Established: 1985
Exporting: Yes
Primary Industry (NAICS): 418320 - Seed Wholesaler-Distributors
Alternate Industries (NAICS): 411120 - Oilseed and Grain Wholesaler-Distributors
418310 - Agricultural Feed Wholesaler-Distributors

Primary Business Activity: Trading House / Wholesaler / Agent and Distributor
Total Sales ($CDN): $5,000,000 to $9,999,999
Export Sales ($CDN): $5,000,000 to $9,999,999
Number of Employees: 10


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Product / Service / Licensing

Product Name: Pulses





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Market profile
Geographic markets:
Export experience:
•Algeria
•Australia
•Belgium
•Brazil
•China
•Cyprus
•Denmark
•Egypt
•Ethiopia
•France
•Germany
•Greece
•Hong Kong
•India
•Iran, Islamic Republic of
•Italy
•Japan
•Morocco
•Russian Federation
•Sudan
•Switzerland
•Tunisia
•Turkey
•United Kingdom
•United States
•Yemen


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[New Search]


Note: This document is presented in the language provided by the author/source. Most of the information contained in Canadian Company Capabilities (CCC) has been provided by sources external to Industry Canada. The accuracy, currency and reliability of the information contained in CCC are the sole responsibility of the registered companies and related organizations. Industry Canada assumes no responsibility in this respect. The registered businesses shall ensure the continued monitoring of the information contained in CCC and ask that it be modified when necessary.


IS IT NOT BECOMING EVIDENT THAT THE OVERSIGHT OF GOVERMENT AGENCIES SUCH AS CGC (AND ITS LICENCING AND BONDING PROGRAMS WE ARE ADVISED TO RELY ON) AND EVEN GOVERNMENT WEB SITES THAT ADVERTISE PRIVATE COMPANIES; DO NOT HAVE THE FIRST CLUE ABOUT WHETHER IT IS SAFE TO EXPECT WHTHER THEY ARE cURRENTLY FINANCIALLY SOLVENT.

[hobbyfrmr]

One off,

You can do an equifax search on buyers. The
accounts receivable insurance companies do a
credit check, fee for service and qualify the buyer
you want to sell to. If the company does not
qualify as a financially sound buyer, the insurance
company will not cover the trade.

I do agree with you the real fact of the matter is
the Canadian Grain Commission has failed to do
it's job, and following the trend of the times, no
CGC employees will be fired or reprimanded.
I have to know my sales are protected. My farm is
too small to lose money on someone else's
incompetence.

[oneoff]

But its that 10% deductible (cream off the top), plus the 1% plus premium that should have been all 100% profit(if there was any profit to be made)

Since few people's rates of return on investment is anywhere near that in the long haul; anyone could still get stung pretty hard; by a series of insolvent buyers (insured or not).


This is encouraging buyers to ignore their fundamentals; because someone else is covering their premiums.

And farmers are accepting any and all premium increases; and might as well budget in a 10% loss on those debts either through premiums or sucking it up as a cost of funding someone else's bad business.

You don't see buyers backing up a farmer's bad deal do you?

Don't be so desperate.

[hobbyfrmr]

The 10% loss is if the buyer defaults. Buyers
have to qualify for the insurance. If the buyer does
not qualify, then I do not sell to them. That is the
first line of defence. I guess you can say I am
over paying for peace of mind. I am satisfied with
my actions, I thought it would help other farmers
do the same.

[oneoff]

Everybody can qualify for insurance. Volunteer to pay a full premium equal to an insured 90% payout and everyone would qualify. Its all in the risk the insurance company anticipates; and the premium it sets to protect itself.

For instance, the old story I remember was that Lloyds of London would provide a policy for those concerned with the possibility of "accidental" pregancy.

Would that premium have been 1% or somewhat more?

I fully understand and sympathize with one's need to protect themselves from sellers default on payments due. Thats a real problem at the present time; and you ain't seen nothing yet. Just anticipate financial cliffs and the several countries which are obviously insolvent. Then the knowledge that they will bring down some more; and it does get scary. Simlarly one business failure; can bring down another in a snowball fashion.

And is that not a real situation that may well, some day be a real possibility.
But to roll over and take on the responsibility (on an industry wide basis) is but an invitation to no one getting paid on delivery; because it will be become standard practice for everyone to rely on the insurance coverage.

And that premium will come straight out of farmers pockets

And that premium will rise; because there is no incentive to pay on delivery; and the losses will be looked at by the insurance company on an industry wide basis.

And worst of all; you either quit asking for immediate payment or you will be the last person on the list to sell your grain.

So it just isn't those who are forced into the insurace coverage way of ensuring ONLY a PORTION of what we all deserve UPON DELIVERY. This sytsem guarantees any payment SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE AS DETERMINED BY A SELLER AND INSURANCE COMPANIES.

That money isn't owed in the future. So why is any farmer working to make that happen. Don't roll over and pretend that this is the answer to being paid.

[wd9]

Anyone used PayPal For grain sales ? Cheaper
then insurance.

[hobbyfrmr]

Wd9,
How does it work? If buyer through PayPal
defaults for..umm......$80,000, how do you,
collect? Is there some way for seller to prove the
money is truly in place?

[wd9]

No idea. It's why I asked. What ever happened to
the clearinghouse concept that Carmen Reid was
working on?

[oneoff]

Every so often a really really good idea floats to the top. Most of us have heard of eBay and Paypal and their combininations of business ideas have been phenominally successful.


Why you ask is this a topic that should be allowed to be in Commodity Marketing? Well I would suggest that is not just one idea but a host of simple workable checks and balances that give confidence and a system that just keeps reinforcing that confidence with one layer of protection after another.

But before the attention span is exceeded for the readers who can't tolerate any post more than a sentence in length, here is some information from the eBay site that is very pertinent

"Business Equipment Purchase Protection
In this article
How your purchase is protected
Quick answers about the purchase protection




eBay Business helps protect buyers against fraud and misrepresentation of items purchased through our Business Equipment Purchase Protection program.

How your purchase is protected
Your capital equipment purchase is protected for up to $20,000 or the equipment purchase price, whichever is lower. This program is free on all eligible capital equipment transactions completed on the eBay Business site with a final price of at least $1,000.

Quick answers about the purchase protection
Question
Answer

What does the program cover?
The program covers purchases of capital equipment against deliberate misrepresentation or fraud on the part of the seller. For example, you're covered if:

You pay for an item but don't receive it

You receive an item that has undisclosed damage, and the item was described as being less than 10 years old.

You receive an item that differs in type, make, or model from what was described in the listing.

Learn more about what's covered.

Additional eligibility requirements apply.

Which items are eligible?
To be eligible, an item must be purchased on eBay Business in one of the following capital equipment categories:

Agriculture & Forestry > Tractors & Farm Machinery

Construction > Heavy Equipment & Trailers

Healthcare, Lab & Life Science > Imaging & Aesthetics Equipment

Industrial Supply & MRO > Forklifts & Other Lifts

Manufacturing & Metalworking > Manufacturing Equipment

Manufacturing & Metalworking > Metalworking Equipment

Printing & Graphic Arts > Commercial Printing Presses

Restaurant & Catering > Concession Trailers & Carts

How long do I have to submit a claim?
As soon as you notice a problem, contact the seller. Direct communication often resolves issues.

If you and the seller are unable to come to an agreement, you can file a claim.

You have 3 days from your receipt of the item to either contact the seller in writing or file your Business Equipment Purchase Protection claim. Your claim must be filed within 45 days of the listing end date.

Claims that involve undisclosed liens on the item or a stolen item can be filed up to 6 months from the end of the listing.

Who provides the coverage?
Claims filed with the Business Equipment Purchase Program are investigated and handled by a third-party claims adjuster. This third-party provider has been in business since 1953, pioneering unique insurance programs specifically for the auction industry."


End of Quote:

Some may pick out that the eBay seller covers the costs of any insurance premiums and it might be logically argued in the case of prairie farmers (the seller of his grain) should then be responsible for arranging the coverage and paying the costs.

BUT THIS ANALSIS IGNORES THE IMPOTANT OBVIOUS DIFFERENCE THAT IN eBAY TRANSACTIONS: THE SELLER HAS ALL THE BUYERS MONEY UPFRONT AND INITIALLY THE BUYERS GOODS IN HIS HAND. In the case of the farmer's grain; the seller has possession; and hasn't paid a cent and maybe can't/won't ever settle up.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

But the eBay and Paypal principles of buyer and seller "feedback" and "Buyer protection are good ones and could be simply adapted to our farmer payment situation.
If dealing through "brokers"

ie. a "broker" has been engaged and been given the authority to act on your behalf. The courts will/would point out to the farmer that the principle of "estoppel" surely applies (see another older topic for this explanation: or alternatively check out for yourself how this applies)

Thus I would argue that this "insurance" is then within the brokers juridiction and the that being a part of the "broker" or "grain dealers`` business; it should be legislated that that protection is in place one way or another; and paid by a negotiated or agreed agreement before any sale was allowed to be made.
Maybe the above farmers option should be rolled into the suggestion in the next paragraph; and then brokers, feedlots and seed growers would all be include in the definition of a `grain dealers: with no exemptions permitted.


A farmer selling his grain to any "grain dealer", transfer,process or primary elevator must deal through one "clearinghouse" ( maybe even the CGC back stopped and supported by the Federal government who would be responsible for collecting the "premiums" from the purchasers for the sole reason that they hold the goods and haven't yet paid. The sellers are the ones at this stage that are the security risk; and certainly not the farmers who have already lost possession of their grain and not yet been compensated in any way.

The CGC and Government are already setup; this simplifies the process and we should admit that farmers, on the whole, don't want that job and honestly would probably do a pretty bad job overall. That's not to say that the CGC and Government couldn't do with some significant retraining prior to being given those new responsibilities.

And to repeat, there are many that can attest that "eBay buyer protection plans" work like a charm for the automatic coverage for usually smaller purchasers, but I personally know its benefits for a $3100 purchase only a few weeks ago. When disagreements arise, you get deserved attention and suddenly everyone becomes a reasonable person and an amicable solution can be reached in hours.
And start thinking from the basis that unless you are a banker or a farmer ..........

The seller has every last cent of the purchase money, plus hasn't yet released the goods the instant the deal is made. AS FARMERS WE HAVE NOTHING BUT AN UNSECURED PROMISE and YOUR grain or "machinery" is gone and probably couldn't be retrieved.

.

The amounts covered are not necssarily limited to $2000 for most generally smaller ticket price items. The instance of $20,000 has been documented above for eBay "machinery purchases"; and a deal with someone like Atradius or their competitors might be negotiated for any protection willing to be paid for. And it shouldn't be for $350,00 coverage. The object is to get paid before/just after the first load leaves and not GET ON THE HOOK FOR A MONTH'S DELIVERIES.
How a system could work should be looked into by each one of us. And we should report back to others; because it just might be a workable template for the prairie farmer's grain deliveries.

There is even the possibility that it should be the alternative that the Federal Government should impose on the trade when the CGC bonding is wrapped up and replaced by something that has yet to be fleshed out.

And please tolerate the reposting of this as a new topic if this becomes buried in the Commodity Marketing Topic List.