Part Deux

[oneoff]

Prairie grain transactions are so out of sync with eBay and PayPal transactions ; that there is no way to even enter such a tranaction.

Lets try though

Ebay seller (ie. farmer) advertises 1000 bushels feed barley at Buy it Now`` $5.00 per bushel.

Puritone accepts offer.

But deal is they use PayPal, or maybe certain money orders (althogh Buyer Protection may then be forfeited by Puritone) to transfer $5000 to farmers account. Are you starting to catch on that Puritone doesn`t pay upfront to anybody, so at best this contract is going to end with the farmer paying the listing fees etc and Puritone gets a deserved stike for an unpaid transaction.

Now what `Buyer protection `should kick in. The buyer renigged, and it would be pretty twisted to claim he deserves any compensation. The farmer seller might file an ùnpaid strike`to warn others and Puritones eBay rating would fall a bit.


Thats extremely useful to warn other farmers about experiences other have had with that buyer; but for that farmer seller it was all a very bad experience except for the comfort in realizing the bastards didn`t get to steal 1000 bushels of barley.

Maybe that was extremely important.


Now lets say the tranaction wasn`t posted on eBay and the seller wished to be paid through Paypal. So if the money was sent to PayPal by Puritone; and is in the farmer`s account, then what problem is forseen by the farmer. Well thats a case of possession is nine tenths of the law; and the farmer is a whole lot better off than being out the grain AND not being paid for it

[dave4441]

Here's the problem oneoff. 99.9 percent of the
grain that is bought is paid for properly. To think
the retain industry needs to be loaded up with
costs, to protect 100 percent of the sales, 100
percent of the time is an dumb. Sucks when you
are part of the percentage that has a loss, I get
that, but this is business and nothing is perfect.
No other business in Canada is given any
protection on AR. The other issue is that farmers
often will not generally allow any cost or levy to be
charged to them for this guarantee. When's the
last time you paid for your chemical or fuel when it
was delivered? Should the agri retailer demand
100 percent payment up front. Maybe in some
cases and I would think a discount would be in
order. Negotiate your payment up front and don't
be afraid to taken discount as well.

[oneoff]

Here's the problem oneoff. 99.9 percent of the
grain that is bought is paid for properly. To think
the retain industry needs to be loaded up with
costs, to protect 100 percent of the sales, 100
percent of the time is an dumb. Sucks when you
are part of the percentage that has a loss, I get
that, but this is business and nothing is perfect.
No other business in Canada is given any
protection on AR. The other issue is that farmers
often will not generally allow any cost or levy to be
charged to them for this guarantee. When's the
last time you paid for your chemical or fuel when it
was delivered? Should the agri retailer demand
100 percent payment up front. Maybe in some
cases and I would think a discount would be in
order. Negotiate your payment up front and don't
be afraid to taken discount as well.

I speak with 100% certainty for myself only.
Maybe credit applications are not in use where you come from. Maybe your coop and line elevator company doesn`t push that paper. But I sincerely doubt it.
Maybe no one in your area noticed that accounts at the machinery dealer are paid for by plastic with a different logo than the dealership; and almost all transactions elsewhere are on a dozen different credit cards. Otherwise why does consumer debt increase every year; and is at an all time high. Maybe there is a country or province without debt; but they are indeed an extreme rarity.

None of those statistics necessarily means any person or entity is on the right path.

And if you don`t conform, there are difficulties for persons to get their first cellular phone contract even though they could write a cheque for a substantial portion of the companies shares. And the person with no credit history; (and coincidentally no debt history) condemns themselves until they change their ways. In my books those rare persons are found to be the most trustworthy.

If you do not forward contract; take payment terms as spelled out to you; do exactly as you are required to do; and as you are told; and conduct your deliveries and marketing at the convenience of your limited purchasers; you have limited your opportunities as a supplier to when none other can be found.

And if that is how it is `paid for properly`; then I am happy for you.

I offer 100% payment up front; and only when the retailer refusers does this not happen. You are correct that a discount should apply in such cases. And I find that that is best how to never be required to fill in any credit application; which I never have and never intend to do.
The fact is that retailers are more and more turning their accounts receivable over to businesses strictly in the financial field. Over that I have no control; but have you noticed the last time when being not being first asked what charge account you wished to use.

Outside of debit cards; people don`t tend to carry but enough money for the smallest purchases. Not my choice though.
And when your long term return on investment or capital (especially in real terms) is of the order of a few percent; you can not continue to lose 10% on what you bargained for as well as pay for insurance and bonds that some other business man really need to cover their poor financial decisions and inadequate financial foundations.

[TOM4CWB]

Oneoff

We have set up PayPal accounts to accept payment.
They are simple to set up and low cost. Visa and
Mastercard are also alternatives. OR... just require a
Bank Draft... OR just sell and be paid for one load at a
time for domestic sales. When dealing with Cargill... I
consider the transaction as risky as dealing with PayPal
or Visa. I may consider a lower price from them...
simply because of PAYMeNT security. We all have
different thresholds for risk... and are rewarded many
times if high risk sales work out. Then there is a pool
of funds from these sales... that then give confidence
in doing more high risk transactions.

I do NOT consider it reasonable that the taxpayer
should be on the hook for the risk of these high risk
business decisions.

Cheers

[oneoff]

Confidence in a system is priceless....ergo valuable.

The role of government can just be to ensure that certain rights and some stability is maintained. One sensible solution would be continue to use the CGC as the agency that administers a comprehensive insurance program (probably not under written by public funds or government backing") to provide stability and confidence in agricultural industry transactions that may very well involve worldwide transactions.

Readers should also take into account that groups such as seed growers may very well have a lot more nearby customers than some generic producer of lower cost and quality commodities that have have different classes of buyers. One may very well have to deal with a whole industry sector such as hog producers who are bleeding red ink through a lot of cuts over which they have very little control.

And if the remedy seems to be to shut down something like pork production there are probably more problems created solved. That is where our leaders and governments might have some role; to at least attempt to salvage some things where the market place has demonstrated it whole hearted failure.

In this feed grain payment problem; there isn't widespread use of viable options. And maybe there is no current accepable viable option for all buyer or seller circumstances.

The main problem keeps coming back to the buyer's reluctance to put money on the table at the time he gets possession of the farmer's goods.

The main problem keeps coming back to the buyer's reluctance to put money on the table at the time he gets possession of the farmer's goods

The main problem keeps coming back to the buyer's reluctance to put money on the table at the time he gets possession of the farmer's goods

The main problem keeps coming back to the buyer's reluctance to put money on the table at the time he gets possession of the farmer's goods


If you get what I am trying to convey.

[charliep]

<a href="http://www.agr.gc.ca/cb/index_e.php?s1=n&s2=2012&page=n121018">New Canada Grains Act</a>

Begin Quote

These changes to the Act will streamline the operations of the CGC and eliminate redundant or unnecessary services, such as inward inspection, that are no longer required in a modern grain industry. These amendments will improve the CGC's producer payment protection program by creating the opportunity to move to a new insurance-based system, where licensing costs may be reduced and protection coverage improved.

End quote

[TOM4CWB]

Oneoff,

Why SHOULD my farm... pay you to get a premium
from folks who are HIGH risk buyers?

HOW is that fair?

This is about FREEDOM... deal with the CWB if you want
a cradle to grave payment policy!

Cheers

[oneoff]

Throwing red herrings is not constructive.

You should work for the common good as well as for your personal intersts; especially if you are interested in representing more than just yourself.

There is the distinct possibility; that what is good for others; is also good for everyone; and not everyone is a leech on society. We are after all; in this together Tom.

And your Cheers could be seen as quite annoying.

[Tucker]

Okay, here's an example. I sold some barley to a local pig feed mill a few years ago because I needed a couple bins free
and the local elevators were full at the time. 10 working days and the check would be in the mail. I said I wanted a
cheque on delivery. "We don't do that". Fine, I sold a couple loads, waited and sure enough, a cheque showed up. Now
they call for barley, I say "cheque on delivery" they say "nope, 10 working days" I say "well I guess you don't get my
barley"

Where's the problem? They want my barley they know how to get it. If enough guys sell to them on their terms--fine. I
won't be one of the non-paid farmers when they go bankrupt. I'll take a nickel less and sell to the nearest line company
who will give me a cheque on delivery. Free market is awesome, no?

[furrowtickler]

That is exactly what we should all do tucker.